Managing the Japanese Merchant Fleet

[Q-Ball]

I think this deserves a separate thread, because I for one am finding this a total re-do of WITP. I need to get my head around this, because everything is different: Number available, types, capacity, possible conversions, available escorts, everthing.....not to mention, and I hope the AE designers confirm this, that I think the success of the initial Japanese expansion is dependent, more than anything, on how successfully you manage transport resources. After all, the Allies don't have the strength to stop you on the ground or in the air, but if you can't get there with the right troops and supplies you will stop yourself. That's my take anyway.

Given that, I for one need help, starting with some basic questions:

1. How many xAK to xAK-t conversions need to happen turn 1?
2. Where are the Resource surpluses and deficits? What is the best way to address those?
3. There are many AK and AP types; what classes are best for what mission? I tend to think faster ones are more suited to front-line work, but I don't know....smallies unload faster.
4. Conversions: What are worthwhile conversions? What are to be avoided? This pertains to To'sa and Kiso-class small merchies in particular, which can be minesweepers, minelayers, mine tenders, gunboats, lots of stuff.
5. Priorities: Resource hauling is more important, but on the other hand, you only get a 3/12 month window to really make hay on invasions. What is the priority? I tend to think all on invasions, and get the resources later........
6. Escorts: What are the best escort matches to what mission? I see more escort options available to the Empire, but I think early AARs also show the days of unescorted ships are OVER! Subs are eating them alive.

The other things that are definitely over:
1. Hordes of cheap APs for troops lifting. Troops capacity is WAY lower.
2. Piles of AKs docked in port doing nothing. NOW, a transport sitting there is a nail in your coffin of defeat. Find a mission for it to do, even if that's hauling bananas.
3. Ignoring Merchant production.

All in all, I think this is really great, because it's much closer to reality. But that is sinking in: Crap, we now have to husband our shipping!

"Remember kids: Every idle transport is a nail in our coffin of defeat"

Anyway, feel free to chime in.

[Mike Solli]

Well, here's a spreadsheet that shows xAK/L by class with conversion capabilities. The bold conversions are available on 7 Dec 41.

Edit: When I have time, I will put a tonnage column in this. I'll repost when I do that.

[Q-Ball]

Mike, that is very useful![&o]

Of course, that begs the question: OK, which ones?[&:]

A few ARs are probably a given; maybe an AS or two

I don't see a need for AVs really.

What does an AG or AE really do anyway, anyone figure that out? AG helps small craft only, doesn't seem worthwhile? Right?

[Mike Solli]

My first thought is that everything >14 kt needs to be used to haul cargo, because they can do it faster.  Not many of them though....
 
Also, for some of the smaller ports, TFs need to be tailor made to be able to dock at those ports.  I'm considering creating TFs by size and putting in the title what size port it's made for.  (TF47 P4 Palembang - Saigon) Something like that.

[Mike Solli]

Not really sure about AGs.  Kiso hull, if I build them though.
 
One conversion that I like is the AKV.  That allows you to move planes and they arrive undamaged.  Good for moving IJA fighters to out of the way places.  I plan (right now) on converting 3 or 6 when they're available.

[Q-Ball]

Interesting. I think you are onto something with the port-size. A couple things:

1. You would put FASTER ships on cargo? I am leaning the other way; faster out toward the perimeter, invasions and whatnot, slow haulers in the interior, where they don't need speed to evade the enemy.

2. I am beginning to think that grouping convoys by class may be a good way. For example, gathering all the To'su boats in one or two Home Island ports, and using them solely for local cargo/supply transport b/w Korea, China, Japan, nearby islands. They have small range. And kind of that way from there.

There are hardly ANY APs anymore, that's an adjustment

[Mike Solli]

Ok, here are the xAPs and LSD:

This + 11 reinforcement xAPs and a few LSDs is all you get.

[String]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Interesting. I think you are onto something with the port-size. A couple things:

1. You would put FASTER ships on cargo? I am leaning the other way; faster out toward the perimeter, invasions and whatnot, slow haulers in the interior, where they don't need speed to evade the enemy.

2. I am beginning to think that grouping convoys by class may be a good way. For example, gathering all the To'su boats in one or two Home Island ports, and using them solely for local cargo/supply transport b/w Korea, China, Japan, nearby islands. They have small range. And kind of that way from there.

There are hardly ANY APs anymore, that's an adjustment

I'd do exactly the opposite. You can use the more valuable and less numerous fast ships more efficiently inside your empire. The transports often don't have enough speed to evade anything anyway. Might as well get the old clunkers sunk than your precious fast steamers.

[Mike Solli]

And the escorts:

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: String

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Interesting. I think you are onto something with the port-size. A couple things:

1. You would put FASTER ships on cargo? I am leaning the other way; faster out toward the perimeter, invasions and whatnot, slow haulers in the interior, where they don't need speed to evade the enemy.

2. I am beginning to think that grouping convoys by class may be a good way. For example, gathering all the To'su boats in one or two Home Island ports, and using them solely for local cargo/supply transport b/w Korea, China, Japan, nearby islands. They have small range. And kind of that way from there.

There are hardly ANY APs anymore, that's an adjustment

I'd do exactly the opposite. You can use the more valuable and less numerous fast ships more efficiently inside your empire. The transports often don't have enough speed to evade anything anyway. Might as well get the old clunkers sunk than your precious fast steamers.

I tend to do the same as String. I want to keep the fast ships (fast = valuable) afloat as long as possible. They move between my waypoints and the cargo final destination. Also, in AE, the final destination will usually have the largest ports so I can accumulate stuff at the waypoints and use larger convoys to get the stuff to those destinations.

[Elladan]

Had any of you thought about Type-N Tankers yet? I wonder if I should convert them to Tonan Whaler class TKs or keep them as they are? The pro for conversion is bigger cargo space (both fuel and a little bit of resource/supply), the cons are lower speed, increased tonnage and loss of potential AO conversion. How do you think?

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
My first thought is that everything >14 kt needs to be used to haul cargo, because they can do it faster.  Not many of them though....

Also, for some of the smaller ports, TFs need to be tailor made to be able to dock at those ports.  I'm considering creating TFs by size and putting in the title what size port it's made for.  (TF47 P4 Palembang - Saigon) Something like that.

Hint – this was our conceptual thinking.

There’s 2 kinds of xAKs; fast/modern, slow/old, kinda subdivided among large, medium and small. ONLY “some” fast/moderns can get upgraded to real ‘AKs’. ONLY “some” fast/moderns can ‘convert’ to something worth a crap in the military sense.

Slow/old can go to tenders, etc, but in return for the military capability, they lose significant general capacity.

The idea is that you only got so many fast/moderns and everybody was scrambling and grabbing at those few ships. So the idea is to present the choice is those terms. You can convert the hot-shots and leave your remaining fleet to plod along, or not convert the hot-shots and limit your military capabilities.

We put as much thought into this as we did for production. And it’s just as flexible; or not, as you please. My hope is that hull protection and allocation becomes as important as a/c engine production.

Hope we haven’t been too Evil.

[Mynok]

Liquid toting is going to be way more important than resource toting IMO. Yusen N and Kyushu are probably going to be my supply ships taking fuel and supplies out to my main bases. Saves me using tankers or AO for that job.

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Elladan
Had any of you thought about Type-N Tankers yet? I wonder if I should convert them to Tonan Whaler class TKs or keep them as they are? The pro for conversion is bigger cargo space (both fuel and a little bit of resource/supply), the cons are lower speed, increased tonnage and loss of potential AO conversion. How do you think?

Damn. Database error. Tonan is a Tonan, nothing converts to it. Thanks Elladan. This will be fixed in the patch.

[Andy Mac]

Remember the 120 PB's have a conversion back to AKL option

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Liquid toting is going to be way more important than resource toting IMO. Yusen N and Kyushu are probably going to be my supply ships taking fuel and supplies out to my main bases. Saves me using tankers or AO for that job.

Main bases? That's only 26k fuel for a load. I think you'll have to supplement that somewhat.

I agree with your statement on hauling liquids. That definitely will be the sticking point. We begin with years of resources to support our industry. Less than a year of oil. Fuel for the HI is hard to judge but it will definitely be in competition with the Navy.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
My first thought is that everything >14 kt needs to be used to haul cargo, because they can do it faster.  Not many of them though....

Also, for some of the smaller ports, TFs need to be tailor made to be able to dock at those ports.  I'm considering creating TFs by size and putting in the title what size port it's made for.  (TF47 P4 Palembang - Saigon) Something like that.

Hint – this was our conceptual thinking.

There’s 2 kinds of xAKs; fast/modern, slow/old, kinda subdivided among large, medium and small. ONLY “some” fast/moderns can get upgraded to real ‘AKs’. ONLY “some” fast/moderns can ‘convert’ to something worth a crap in the military sense.

Slow/old can go to tenders, etc, but in return for the military capability, they lose significant general capacity.

The idea is that you only got so many fast/moderns and everybody was scrambling and grabbing at those few ships. So the idea is to present the choice is those terms. You can convert the hot-shots and leave your remaining fleet to plod along, or not convert the hot-shots and limit your military capabilities.

We put as much thought into this as we did for production. And it’s just as flexible; or not, as you please. My hope is that hull protection and allocation becomes as important as a/c engine production.

Hope we haven’t been too Evil.

Sneaky John, very sneaky. [:-] [:D]

In my opinion, managing the merchant fleet will be the downfall of many Japanese players.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: Elladan
Had any of you thought about Type-N Tankers yet? I wonder if I should convert them to Tonan Whaler class TKs or keep them as they are? The pro for conversion is bigger cargo space (both fuel and a little bit of resource/supply), the cons are lower speed, increased tonnage and loss of potential AO conversion. How do you think?

Damn. Database error. Tonan is a Tonan, nothing converts to it. Thanks Elladan. This will be fixed in the patch.

Does this mean that the Type-N TK will be able to be converted to Tonan Whalers? [X(]

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
I tend to do the same as String. I want to keep the fast ships (fast = valuable) afloat as long as possible. They move between my waypoints and the cargo final destination. Also, in AE, the final destination will usually have the largest ports so I can accumulate stuff at the waypoints and use larger convoys to get the stuff to those destinations.

Makes sense now that you put it that way; that is thinking of it like a "Hub and Spoke" model, which is probably now the way to go---i.e. major tranport to HUBS like Truk, Saigon, Singapore, etc, and unload-reload to "Spokes", anything with a small port.

This could apply to tankers as well, those big monsters would take FOREVER to load at Medan.

[Mike Solli]

Here are TKs and AOs. I'm not quite done with that one yet: