Early Allied Moves

[Graymane]

I'm kicking around some ideas about early strategy for the Allies (Dec. 8th is what I'm playing).

• PI - evac the 3 Asiatic Fleet BFs with naval support (Manilla, Bataan and Cebu). I'm sure this will work v. AI but not so sure against a human. Maybe just the Manilla one with all the transports.
• PI - Defend Manilla or Clark or both? Which one will tie up the most Japs the longest?
• DEI (alt 1) - evac the 2 NL-KNIL Eng units with 100 aviation support, 75 support and 30 Eng each. These seem to be the best things to evac out of DEI. But does doing so reduce the chance of damaging the industry at Soerabaja?
• DEI (alt 2) - fight for Java and Sumatra. There is a Brit Div and a couple of Indian BDEs loaded on transports. Coupled with some better fighters (maybe an AVG sqd or 2? early Brit arrivals, etc), what about basing them in Palembang and/or Soerabaja or some combination?

My goal is to make the Japs spend as much time and effort as possible taking the DEI before thinking about other targets. Is the potential benefits going to outweight the potential loss of these early brigades and good aircraft (it looks like airframes are the limiting factor early on) for the allies?

[John Lansford]

I didn't think you could evac the Dutch units in Java, being in a restricted command.  There are some unrestricted Dutch units but not those.
 
I've basically taken a modified version of Alternate 2.  I moved air units from Singapore to Batavia and Surabaya, as well as all the PT boats from Manila and Hong Kong, and placed Dutch subs and S-boats south of Singapore and east of Borneo.  The unrestricted BF's in the PI's got shipped to Darwin.  Except for the northernmost port, Java is still mine and the Dutch are taking a heavy toll in transports, small warships and men.  One lucky Dutch pilot sank Hiei with a 300 kg bomb, but the KB has come calling and my airforce has had to disperse to keep from being destroyed all at once.

[Graymane]

You can spend the PP on those 2 particular units and change the command (I think). They are in yellow with a PP cost.

[CowboyRonin]

You need to make a choice of Manila or Clark, since if you defend Manila and he attacks Clark, you won't be able to get out if Manila falls. If you're going to go for the Bataan stand, I think Clark is the better choice (he can't get behind you there without an amphib landing in the face of Ft. Drum).

[dasboot1960]

AAAARGH!!!!!!!!!! Fort Drum gets all the press. There were four fortified islands in the Manila defences. Drum had only anti-ship GUN armamament (14" in turrets and 6" in barbettes) these were the biggest in the harbor defences, equal to the two 'bullseye' batteries on Corregidor (Ft. Mills) but in turrets; a wonderful thing. In point of historical fact, the most effective batteries were the seacoast defence mortar batteries. Way and Geary on Corregidor(Ft Mills totaling 12x 12"), Craighill on Caballo(Ft Hughes totalling 8x 12")Koehler on Carabao(Ft Frank totalling 8x 12") and various 'Panama mount' 155mm GUNS. The distinction matters because of trajectory the Japanes muchly limted their exposure to direct fire. The main problem with the mortars is there were very limited numbers of anti-personall rounds available. This was somewhat addressed by trimming the fuses. The distinction between the fight for Coregidor and the islands vs the fight for Bataan breaks down in game terms, they all fall as one, but the Islands held for another month....... IMHO the mortars would've been the most effective in anti-ship as well (let's consider plunging fire for a minute)In any case some examples of the magnificent installations remain around the US, and of course, the shattered remains 'in place' I hope to return one day..................(rant complete)



http://www.cdsg.org
http://www,corregidor.org/ct&n_index.html

[vlcz]

Never played PBEM…so this is from reading AARS and coments....stealed ideas [8D]

Assume your opponent will not make the IA errors that give ample opportunities to take little (and not so little) bites to his merchant fleet/ground army…. Let´s hoppe he make his own bigger ones [:'(]

“Sound” strategies out there seems to be …

Phi. Defend clark to keep occupied jap infantry as long as it can be done

Burma, RUN to imphal from the initial turn, this will conserve forces to counter an India invasion AND let the partisans destroy the facilities in burma for lack of garrison.

Malaya , retreat ASAP to Singapore, evacuate Air units to Java and Air HQ units to India

DEI – Defend Java, only java but to the bitter end.

Be very careful about your base build ups, a japan human player can initially take almost anything he wants , and that includes Noumea, canton, midway , jhonston, etc first make sure you don’t lost your carriers, 7 assorted ground support/building units , 100k supply and 25 AKs without infantry support by building mindlessly a advance base.

Oppose to those adventures conserving your forces, he can take it but then you can assure they will be eating only coral for the rest of the war [8|].

[cantona2]

I also move the first two BF's that appear in SF to Palmyra and Canton Island.

[vlcz]

Never played PBEM…so all this is from reading AARS and coments.

Assume your opponent will not make the IA errors that give ample opportunities to take little (and not so little) bites to his merchant fleet/ground army…. Let´s hoppe he make his own bigger ones

“Sound” strategies out there seems to be …

Phi. Defend clark to keep occupied jap infantry as long as it can be done

Burma, RUN to imphal from the initial turn, this will conserve forces to counter an India invasion AND let the partisans destroy the facilities in burma for lack of garrison.

Malaya , retreat ASAP to Singapore, evacuate Air units to Java and Air HQ units to India

DEI – Defend Java, only java but to the bitter end.

Be very careful about your base build ups, a japan human player can initially take almost anything he wants , and that includes Noumea, canton, midway , jhonston, etc first make sure you don’t lost your carriers, 7 assorted ground support/building units , 100k supply and 25 AKs without infantry support by building mindlessly a advance base.

Oppose to those adventures conserving your forces, he can take it but then you can assure they will be eating coral for the rest of the war.

[John Lansford]

I wouldn't put anything on Canton that you don't want to lose vs the AE AI.  I'm just sayin'.
 
1) Get supplies and fuel moving from the WC to SoPac and Australia.
2) Get all tankers in the Singapore/DEI region, fill them with fuel, and head for Australia (Brisbane or Sydney).  Do not send them to Darwin since fuel/resources don't spread out from there to the other bases.
3) Decide if you want to evac any useful LCU's from the Philippines or Singapore, and do it ASAP.  I'm currently moving Asiatic Fleet HQ from Manila to Darwin, for example (assuming it gets there, of course).  Base forces, engineers, CD's and infantry is the priority I use.
4) All those AK's in the DEI region should pick up supply if they aren't loading LCU's and send them to Darwin, or Singapore if that base is closer.
5) Put all unrestricted LCU's on the WC on strategic mode and get ready to load them for transit to Pearl or other bases.  Infantry, AA, engineers, BF's, whatever, you'll need them all.
6) Organize large TF's of longrange tankers and AK's in Australia and send them to either Cape Town or the WC to pick up supplies/fuel/LCU's.
7) Consolidate all surface warships north of Australia in one or two locations, and start fighting.  Send all available subs to either north of Luzon or near Saigon (US subs) or between Camranh Bay and Malaysia (for Dutch/English subs).
8) Decide what to do about air groups.  Move the RAF units to Singapore or evac them south to Java.  I like keeping the TB's at Singapore for as long as possible (sank a DD on 12/7/41 with one) but the others are near useless.
9) Decide on "stop points" and let the Japanese advance have everything up to them, hitting their TF's when possible, and falling back as needed.  Mine is usually Chittagong/Andaman/Timor/PM/Ndeni/Canton/Johnson/Midway.  Advances past that get my biggest reaction, and once the front has stabilized I start from that line towards wherever it looks like the Japanese are weakest.
10) Be flexible.  Try and plan for surprises and opportunities.  Have a reserve available to react or take advantage of an overextension, whether it's a few DD's or an LCU.

[Graymane]

I'm just curious, why evac the Asiatic Fleet HQ instead of the Asiatic Fleet BFs with all the naval support points?

[hbrsvl]

Graymane-I'm not playing PBEM, but you might consider this idea. Playing scen.6.



In addition to the various ideas posted here(which most of them I agree with & am following), you might try this. From Allied turn one, I get the CVs out to Wake. Lex sinks the first landing attempt, enemy landing force eliminated. In a few turns Enterprise joins.

I keep the CVs at Wake, run AOs to them & wait.

About 12/20-22 an enemy CV force shows up near Wake. I keep my TF in the Wake hex to get additional CAP.

CV battle follows and I sink Kaga & Akagi for 1 torp hit on Enterprise(18 sys dam.). Haven't got any farther yet, but plan to withdraw CVs a hex or two until Sara joins up.

Have a GREAT battle!! Hugh Browne

[John Lansford]

Greymane,
 
The Asiatic Fleet HQ had 100 naval support points, and IIRC there wasn't an unrestricted BF at Manila I could pick up.  If there was I intend to pick it up too, but the HQ looked too useful to leave there.  I'm also thinking of picking up the Bataan BF too since it's unrestricted, and there's one at Cebu you can grab.

[Graymane]

John,

Maybe it is because I'm using the Dec 8th scenario? This what I have in the PI with naval support and naval HQ:

• Manilla - Asiatic Fleet HQ - 100 support (not naval support, regular support)
• Manilla - Cavite USN BF (Asiatic Fleet) - 200 naval support
• Bataan - Bataan USN BF (Asiatic Fleet) - 100 naval support
• Cebu - Cebu USN BF (Asiatic Fleet) - 50 naval support

Those are all moveable, loadable Asiatic Fleet units in the Dec. 8th scenario. I've haven't loaded the Dec. 7th ones yet to check. But assuming what I've given above, what would be the advantage of evac the HQ over any of the BFs in this case?

[John Lansford]

Oh, never mind; it was the Cavite BF I'm loading up.  It was late last night and I'm at work so I can't check.  I may get the Asiatic Fleet HQ if I've got the room though.  Getting the HQ does give you more support points and helps with reinforcements and supply for any attached units (if they're within the radius of the HQ).

[stuman]

ORIGINAL: dasboot

AAAARGH!!!!!!!!!! Fort Drum gets all the press. There were four fortified islands in the Manila defences. Drum had only anti-ship GUN armamament (14" in turrets and 6" in barbettes) these were the biggest in the harbor defences, equal to the two 'bullseye' batteries on Corregidor (Ft. Mills) but in turrets; a wonderful thing. In point of historical fact, the most effective batteries were the seacoast defence mortar batteries. Way and Geary on Corregidor(Ft Mills totaling 12x 12"), Craighill on Caballo(Ft Hughes totalling 8x 12")Koehler on Carabao(Ft Frank totalling 8x 12") and various 'Panama mount' 155mm GUNS. The distinction matters because of trajectory the Japanes muchly limted their exposure to direct fire. The main problem with the mortars is there were very limited numbers of anti-personall rounds available. This was somewhat addressed by trimming the fuses. The distinction between the fight for Coregidor and the islands vs the fight for Bataan breaks down in game terms, they all fall as one, but the Islands held for another month....... IMHO the mortars would've been the most effective in anti-ship as well (let's consider plunging fire for a minute)In any case some examples of the magnificent installations remain around the US, and of course, the shattered remains 'in place' I hope to return one day..................(rant complete)



http://www.cdsg.org
http://www,corregidor.org/ct&n_index.html

Great pics. Thx

[Remenents]

These sound like some good ideas... but I am not sure what 90% of your abbreviations mean... I am such a noob.

What I mean, how do you know what is restricted, and what exactly does that mean? I know there are some units you can not change there home, is that what restricted is?

[Grollub]

ORIGINAL: Remenents

These sound like some good ideas... but I am not sure what 90% of your abbreviations mean... I am such a noob.

Then just ask! All of us were "noobs" in the beginning [;)]

[Remenents]

For example, restriced? CD? 100 points of support? What does all this mean lol.

[Smeulders]

Restricted units are units that can't be moved out of a certain area. This usually means they can't be loaded onto ships, and that you are restricted in the bases you can air transport them too. They can move as far as they want overland (at least until patch 2, when national borders will probably be implemented and in most PBEM ('play by email', against human opponents) there are usually some house rules concerning restricted commands. If you want to find out if a unit is restricted, go to its information screen, if it has an (R) behind whatever HQ it is attached too, it is restricted.

CD means coastal defense. It's a type of unit, usually static fortresses, but also mobile (Marine defense battalions), that excel at defending against invasions. They have rather large guns that can fire at the invasion fleet.

Support is a sort of squad, as such, you will find them in your land units (LCU), as the name tells you, they support the other squads. A rule of thumb is that you need about 1 squad of support for one other device. More support is always better, especially if you units are recovering from heavy battles and need to replenish squads, lower fatigue, etc.

[Historiker]

CD = Coastal Defence

100 points of support = 100 active support squads. A support squad is a non combat part of every unit. This reflects cooks, mechanics etc...