automatic (1-hex) port transfer rates

[rattovolante]

I have done some tests on this on Hokkaido

I now think that the table in manual section 9.3.3.3 is in error. The resource per day value listed appear to be resource per phase instead (e.g., 1000 x port size per day). I suspect the same applies to the other values as well.

Can anyone test/confirm this?

I don't think WitPStaff takes auto transfer in consideration, so the values it reports for the home islands might be misleading. If I am right, Honshu's resource deficit is not about 100k res/day but about 70k res/day (might be slightly less, I don't know how the multiple ports at 1 hex distance from Oita and Takamatsu work out). The value can be reduced a little by enlarging the ports too.

[Q-Ball]

In order for this to work, however, doesn't the port on the Honshu side "Need" resources? If there is a pile of 200,000 there, for example, will it still decide it "needs" to transfer from Hokkaido?

I sort of don't trust this feature, and plan to move all that manually, but it would be good to know if this actually worked consistently.

[rattovolante]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

In order for this to work, however, doesn't the port on the Honshu side "Need" resources? If there is a pile of 200,000 there, for example, will it still decide it "needs" to transfer from Hokkaido?

I thought the same, but in my tests roughly 5000 units of bulk cargo (supply and/or resources) regularly disappear every turn from Hokkaido (local production is accounted for).

Except for the minimal supply consumption by land units I'm deliberately not moving any cargo or consuming any fuel (all ships left Hokkaido ports). There is no spoilage (as far as WitPStaff knows), and 5000 would exactly match a size 5 port shipping 500 units of bulk cargo per phase (500*5*2 = 5000 units/day) - however this is not what the manual says :\

Interestingly neither Honshu as a whole nor Ominato (the Honshu port involved) are currently in need of supply or resources (I'm testing this in early-mid december 1941). And still I have these 5000 units of bulk cargo disappear from Hokkaido every turn.

I'm puzzled. My explanation is the best I could think of, but I don't trust it (yet).

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I sort of don't trust this feature, and plan to move all that manually, but it would be good to know if this actually worked consistently.

These are exactly my own thoughts


PS:
I now think the best way to check this is Sadogashima - it produces excess resources. Unfortunately I always restart my test games after a couple of weeks, but it would be interesting to check if there is a sizeable increase in the resource stockpile in Sadogashima after a month or so (supposing they were not moved by cargo of course). If the stockpile stays more or less constant I suppose the resources are being moved to Honshu. Anyone with an Axis game in progress wishing to help?

[Elladan]

How do you know Honshu does not need any resources? Have you calculated in the fact heavy and light industries like to have several days worth of resource stocked in the base? (haven't checked the exact numbers but might be a week or two) Until such a reserve is in place they will pull resources from other places.

[rattovolante]

good point.

WitPStaff reports a resource stockpile of about 30 days at scenario start, I've been shipping in resources from kyushu, shikoku and korea as well, but certainly not enough to satisfy the huge need for resources of Honshu's industry. I suppose the stockpile was reduced, but I don't know how severely - although I'd guess that at the very least I still had a stockpile of 10 days' worth.

A lot depends on when exactly a "need for resources" (as it is called in the manual) appears, I understood it as having less resources than are going to be consumed "today", if it is instead having less resources than are going to be consumed "in the next 30 days" (for example), it's way different.

[Elladan]

Hard to say without further testing. From what I have seen the base pulls whatever is needed to form a reserve stock and then uses it for some time. Then pulls again. If the transfer is limited (as in case of port to port ferry) it will probably pull every day if unable to reach the number needed.

[Woos]

> WitPStaff reports a resource stockpile of about 30 days at scenario start
Yes, but WitpStaff looks at the whole cluster. Individual industry might already be pulling. And I have no idea how the pulling is implemented (i.e. if it pulls from the nearest base with reserve, the base with highest reserve relative to own use (which might be Hokkaido) ....)

[erstad]

ORIGINAL: rattovolante

PS:
I now think the best way to check this is Sadogashima - it produces excess resources. Unfortunately I always restart my test games after a couple of weeks, but it would be interesting to check if there is a sizeable increase in the resource stockpile in Sadogashima after a month or so (supposing they were not moved by cargo of course). If the stockpile stays more or less constant I suppose the resources are being moved to Honshu. Anyone with an Axis game in progress wishing to help?

In my PBEM, Sadogashima was stockpiling resources at 100 per day, consistent with 20*20 - 20*15. So nothing was automatically moving. I let it get to around 14K (must have started with some, I'm not 140 days in), then brought in a small transport TF.

[USSAmerica]

ORIGINAL: rattovolante

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

In order for this to work, however, doesn't the port on the Honshu side "Need" resources? If there is a pile of 200,000 there, for example, will it still decide it "needs" to transfer from Hokkaido?

I thought the same, but in my tests roughly 5000 units of bulk cargo (supply and/or resources) regularly disappear every turn from Hokkaido (local production is accounted for).

Except for the minimal supply consumption by land units I'm deliberately not moving any cargo or consuming any fuel (all ships left Hokkaido ports). There is no spoilage (as far as WitPStaff knows), and 5000 would exactly match a size 5 port shipping 500 units of bulk cargo per phase (500*5*2 = 5000 units/day) - however this is not what the manual says :\

Interestingly neither Honshu as a whole nor Ominato (the Honshu port involved) are currently in need of supply or resources (I'm testing this in early-mid december 1941). And still I have these 5000 units of bulk cargo disappear from Hokkaido every turn.

I'm puzzled. My explanation is the best I could think of, but I don't trust it (yet).

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I sort of don't trust this feature, and plan to move all that manually, but it would be good to know if this actually worked consistently.

These are exactly my own thoughts


PS:
I now think the best way to check this is Sadogashima - it produces excess resources. Unfortunately I always restart my test games after a couple of weeks, but it would be interesting to check if there is a sizeable increase in the resource stockpile in Sadogashima after a month or so (supposing they were not moved by cargo of course). If the stockpile stays more or less constant I suppose the resources are being moved to Honshu. Anyone with an Axis game in progress wishing to help?

I'm sure port to port transfer won't work in AE exactly the same way it worked in WitP, but take a look at this excellent bit of testing done by VSWG for "shrinkage" when transferring resources, etc from base to base. Maybe the way it "used" to work will give you some clues to help figure out exactly how it works in AE.

tm.asp?m=1349415

[rattovolante]

very interesting - thank you!

[Elladan]

I have done some testing for port to port transfer wastage and the results are:
Resource, Oil   - 0%
Supply, Fuel    -10%

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Elladan

I have done some testing for port to port transfer wastage and the results are:
Resource, Oil   - 0%
Supply, Fuel    -10%

Sounds good.