Weather Gone Wild!

[AH4Ever]

This is just a small area, clouds cover most of the board.

[AH4Ever]

Saved game

[willgamer]

Talk about motivation to finish off Poland in Sept. [8|][X(] [:D]

Can't help but wonder if this is an over correction to requests for more weather. [&:]

[AH4Ever]

The lack of response by any of the developers has me concerned, if this is not an issue please indicate so.

[NefariousKoel]

I've had that playing the Soviets before.. only lasted 1 turn IIRC.

[AH4Ever]

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

I've had that playing the Soviets before.. only lasted 1 turn IIRC.

Thanks for the Info, but I would still like to know if this is a bug or not.

[Anraz]

General mud is a younger brother of general winter. We will check his behavior.

[AH4Ever]

ORIGINAL: Anraz

General mud is a younger brother of general winter. We will check his behavior.

Discipline, good. But If "His name is Mudd" shouldn't we just hang him.

Thank you for all your efforts

[NefariousKoel]

Kinda seems like the weather hexes are reversed doesn't it? [X(]

[AH4Ever]

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

Kinda seems like the weather hexes are reversed doesn't it? [X(]

ORIGINAL: willgamer


Can't help but wonder if this is an over correction to requests for more weather. [&:]

Way too many, no matter what the cause.

I was surprised to find out that the community requested more weather.

I though it was too invasive and sporadic to begin with.

[cpdeyoung]

I was an anti weather guy from the start, and it still seems like a bother. I do not mind weather effects in the severly underdeveloped East, but it has been a very long time since weather has had an effect this extreme in Western Europe. At a weekly scale, and over these distances modern armies, the ones campaigning in WW2, were trained to do operational movement in all weathers. This is not to say there were not effects of bad weather, the Neptune go/nogo decision, lack of Allied air support in the early Bulge battle, come to mind. However the game does not model either of these effects, and I hasten to say I do not want them to try.

One of the things I worried about from the start was that the weather in two games would not be the same. One mud hex being there or not can make all the difference. For those who do not remember "Road to Victory" it used a variable turns per month method. The ideal campaigning Summer months were four turns, the deep Winter and Spring/Fall turns one and two turns long. As I slog through a ToW winter moving many units one hex each, the elegance of that system is more obvious. I do not expect we will ever go back there, but it was a very elegant solution I think.

One thing I would suggest now is far, far less weather in the West. Multiple snow weeks on the Riviera?

Chuck

[AH4Ever]

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung

I was an anti weather guy from the start, and it still seems like a bother. I do not mind weather effects in the severly underdeveloped East, but it has been a very long time since weather has had an effect this extreme in Western Europe. At a weekly scale, and over these distances modern armies, the ones campaigning in WW2, were trained to do operational movement in all weathers. This is not to say there were not effects of bad weather, the Neptune go/nogo decision, lack of Allied air support in the early Bulge battle, come to mind. However the game does not model either of these effects, and I hasten to say I do not want them to try.

One of the things I worried about from the start was that the weather in two games would not be the same. One mud hex being there or not can make all the difference. For those who do not remember "Road to Victory" it used a variable turns per month method. The ideal campaigning Summer months were four turns, the deep Winter and Spring/Fall turns one and two turns long. As I slog through a ToW winter moving many units one hex each, the elegance of that system is more obvious. I do not expect we will ever go back there, but it was a very elegant solution I think.

One thing I would suggest now is far, far less weather in the West. Multiple snow weeks on the Riviera?

Chuck

Bravo, well stated!

I fully agree, I mean if Command orders you to move out, you move out.

The extra cost in AP's to enter a hex is troubling, it seems to me that sometimes you can move around bad weather but not through it.

Let it alter "Effectiveness" of the unit, not prevent it from entering a hex.

[doomtrader]

I've reduced the chance for bad weathe in autumn and spring moths.

I'll remind you once again, that we have used a random weather generator, which means the weather is not historical.
However it is possible to script events that will even give exact weather for each turn for each hex on the map.

[AH4Ever]

Thank you, I wasn't looking for historical just playable. Would it be possible to make the generation more front-like as in weather front?

[WarHunter]

This thread amuses me.
Complaining about weather being unpredictable and affecting operational military maneuvers. Is this a joke? Cuz to tell the truth, I love the random weather in this game.

Life in the infantry makes one appreciate the little things. Wargames are way more fun when played inside a home out of the elements. Especially when i can send my virtual units into those little rainclouds and remember what it felt like.

Like, Liquid sunshine. (Rain, for those who never had to live in it for more than the time it takes to run from door to door). It makes things wet, wet + cold means ice.
Ever heard of Black ice? It still makes an appearance in Europe today as it did in ww2. Can't forget the ground fog either. Fog so thick the sun can't break through, So you fumble around in gray pea soup, following an azmith. Moving with any speed is out of the question.

Lets get back to liquid sunshine. Also called infantry weather, for good reason. When its bad, its all good for the infantry. The worst the weather, the more friendly it is. Of course, my point of view was screwed about rain and cold after sleeping and eating and marching and sleeping and eating and marching, ok you get the picture. Did i mention i love this game's random weather, cuz i do. It makes me happy to know i can't control everything. Realism bought for the price of a little code.

Action Points in the game increase with tech. Infantry Divisions start at 3 and with level 5 tech increase to 5 AP. That shows you the designers know like i do, better trained, equipped and motivated infantry love bad weather and with the increased level, infantry weather is more friendly. Even better are the Motorized Infantry. Starting at 4AP's they can increase to 8AP with tech level 5. It makes going into a russian Blizzard, like a walk in the park while it drizzles.

So complaining about the weather is understandable. Gamers want to kick ass and take names while Humming panzerlied as the panzers roll forward overcoming all foes. Except those Damned weather clouds. Why do they wreck the timetable and make every AP so precious.

For me i love the random weather. It brings back memories of infantry weather, liquid sunshine falling on my face as i cursed every drop that fell. Of the Black ice that taught me how to ice skate on cobblestone roads, in my combat boots. Of the fog and the lesson that your ears and what you hear are more important than what your eyes cant see. European weather is alot like the weather in Missouri, if you don't like it, just wait some, it will change.

Thanks for putting up with my words. I just hope those who love the weather will speak up. Those who don't, just remember the weather is just an obstacle to your victory, and makes that victory all the wetter.

[cpdeyoung]

Point taken.

However, I want you to consider that your infantry unit has just fought the battle for a suburb of Paris; Paris, France; and you have AP left after your victory, but the Paris hex is in a muddy state, and you have to tell your CO that you will not be able to make it into Paris till some time next week. He will point out that there are abundant railroad, and paved roads into the city ... but, sorry it is just too muddy to make it into the empty and waiting Paris, because of that persistent mud.

I have never been in the Infantry, but I have seen Paris and I don't think the Infantry would have that big a problem.

It is the densely populated, well developed, West of Europe where I have trouble seeing such massive weather reductions in movement. Paris is different than Minsk.

Chuck

[NefariousKoel]

Oh, I like the random weather, don't get me wrong.

It's just that the random weather has covered ~95% of the hexes in my current game for the last 6 turns starting in late September '39. 

Al Gore's "DOOM!!!11"  is upon us.

[AH4Ever]

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

The worst the weather, the more friendly it is. Of course, my point of view was screwed about rain and cold after sleeping and eating and marching and sleeping and eating and marching, ok you get the picture.

Your love for inclement weather not withstanding, you make our point for us. The Military goes where it is told liquid sunshine or not and they do it better than the Post Office.

[WarHunter]

you have to tell your CO that you will not be able to make it into Paris till some time next week. He will point out that there are abundant railroad, and paved roads into the city

Your CO sounds alot like Major General Colt, from "Kelly's Heroes".

AP's i think we can agree are just an abstract to give us a facet of war. This facet represents to me more than just the ability to cross space within a concept of time to attack and hold an objective. It gives us a tool that makes our journey into the past simulating WW2, eaiser. It has elements of Cohesion, Morale, Doctrine, Communication, Supply to some degree.

But it cannot model all elements of warfare WW2 style.

It does'nt have the depth to model human behavior in the suburbs of Paris while the enemy is fighting a rearguard action among the rubble of train tracks and busted up roadway yet to be cleared by engineers and covered by MG's and snipers. It cannot model the last stand of men whose only hope is KIA, MIA, POW, because they have been successful in holding to the end.

Games have no tired, hungry, exhausted men. Men who repair equipment, evacuate the wounded and sleep whenever they can. Even though high command has 1AP left and knows this unit should be able to advance, just one more map grid. (yes i can get a little off topic, sorry)

The idea of a weather front was given earlier in this thread. Really that is a great idea to work with. Having a weather front come in from the Atlantic hitting Europe from the west. Another Front coming out of the Artic North. Another by way of Africa. With these 3 as a starting point maybe a game designer could come up with a fairly workable weather program to overlay the land. It would still play havoc with moving units, but it would have some facet of being a weather simulation and not a random cloud simulation. As i said before, i'm happy with it, but it could be better. In that i agree with those who dislike the current state of WW2 weather.

Hell, I'm just having fun talking you guys. Thanks for the time.


NefariousKoel, 6 weeks x 7 days = 42 days and nights of rain. That sounds seriouly biblical.

AH4Ever,

[cpdeyoung]

It is fun stuff to discuss. Since you are appreciative of liquid sunshine I give you this shot to appreciate, from my current AAR, it explains why my Germans are waiting a bit to move. The May flowers are going to be spectacular this year.

April 9, 1940