Petition - pilots and exp

[CV Zuikaku]

-Intention of this thread is to sww how many of you guys are interested in changing some things regarding pilots and gaining experience. I also hope that someone from air team will see this. so, here are some things I'd like to change.


1. Increase speed of on map training. It was too fast before latest patch, but now is way too slow and useless.
2. No exp loss when transferring pilots to reserve pool or from reserve pool. the exception woul'd be only in case if pilots are being drawn to squadron they have not been trained for: Eg. fighter pilot drawn into bomber squadron
3. Add one more button into training screen- DEFENSIVE, so we can train pilots faster in defensive skills
4. every pilot can be sent into reserve pool to become reserve) at any time by clicking it in the pilot roster (similar to sending pilots to training command).
5. Pilots gains individuall skils in combat faster then in training. Especially to those skills they are using. So, fighter pilot avoids other fighters 3 times in one combat he should get some defensive skills.
6. Ace pilots should have noticeable general and individual skill gains after every kill and especially for multiple kills in one mission. Now that is not a case. I have some pilots with 20 kills. while their general exp is rising significally, their individuall skills do not. So, my top ace have air skill 62 and defensive skill 54 - the same as at the beginning of the war while he had no kills at all. That is just very wrong [:@]
7. Training can not give skill level over 70

[Roko]

[font="arial"]i totally agree with Zuikaku[/font]

[Yakface]

Also infavour of this

[crsutton]

No, not yet. I still think it is too early to start demanding radical changes. Most players are not that far along and there should be a little more testing.

Also, I have started an email game against a human and am discovering that everything that I thought was wrong with the game (subs & ASW to name two) are working completely different when faced with a skilled human opponent.

I am not saying that these are bad ideas just that

I need more time.

[CV Zuikaku]

I don't think these are radical changes. They'll improve playability. open more options and control to players (when and which pilots to draw and send from/to reserve pool). and ace pilots won't be aces only because of kills- but experience they gain. Now they only get kills and nothing more...
And yes, training won't be uselless. Flying combat missions too. now they fly combat missions lobotomized- if survive ,they learn nothing [;)]

[Tanaka]

All seems reasonable to me! [:)]

[vaned74]

I would certainly second this notion. Sorry, but training missions now are a prodigious waste of resources. I just started a new head-to head scenario and set 800 japanese planes on training; flew about 15,000 training missions in specific skills (nav search for recons, escort for fighters, asw patrol for bombers and patrols and float planes) - not a single point of skill increase anywhere. So, for 10,000 to 15,000 tons of supplies (roughly) there were no training benefits? This defies reason.

Now, I haven't noticed whether or not pilots increase skills for kills or combat missions; I haven't tracked this yet, but it appears not. General experience occasionally increases but nothing else.

I am hoping this is a bug in patch 1.804. I do think that training may have been a little easy in the first release, but I could debate that - I could train a group from 30 to 70 in a specific skill in about 3 months; that may have been a little too fast or allow training to a little too high a level. All told though, pilots come out at 35 XP and thus for a fighter for example - it would still take about 9-12 months of on map training to bring him to 70 in key fighter skills (air-to-air, experience, defense). This doesn't sound unreasonable at all. Of course, in 1.804 version - you can't do this.

[moose1999]

I very much agree on the lack of experience gain for pilots flying combat missions.
I have three fighter squadrons stationed at Cox's Bazar and they're shooting down loads of Japanese planes - all of them have 400+ kills.
They've all gone from experience levels in the 60s to 82, 86 and 89.
But no pilots in in any of the squadrons have increased any skills whatsoever. Not one.
Only the general exp is rising.

[medicff]

I agree, good list.

[Streptokok]

Signed.
Training as it is now is useless.
And whats even more disturbing is no gain in air/def skills for pilots that get kills.

[Central Blue]

1. No
2. Probably not
3. No. I get enough of this on general training where I have good leaders and planes are on good air HQ.
4. Maybe. Some of my squadrons have a lot of pilots from units being disbanded into them.
5. Not before hearing why things are the way they are.
6. Maybe. See 5.
7. No

[vaned74]

Central Blue - can you post more details about how you are achieving this success. I tried the technique in the other thread you posted and had no luck.

Effectively I ran 413 training sorties in one group under the most excellent leader (leadership, inspiration 65ish) I could find as well as changed the air hq leader to a good one and in those 413 sorties the pilots gained a total of 13 general xp points (spread out among about 6 pilots for an average gain in the group of like 0.3 xp for 1.5 weeks). This means that the gain rate per sortie is ca 1 xp point per 33 training flights. So I figure those 30-35 xp pilots will take about 660 flights to get up to about 55 xp.

So for a modestly trained pilot (general XP 55) that's one year in flight school plus about 600 training flights and then he can start specific skills training. Works out to be about 30-36 months in training before he can start specialist skills training. Total expense 60 heavy industry points (for Japan - the equivalent of 1.5 assembled single engine planes) representing about 600 tons of resources, 60 tons of fuel, and about 600 tons of supplies for the training missions for one pilot. Seems just a little off...

[Shark7]

Ok, I won't support radical changes at this point, but I fully support dialing back what the patch did about 50%.

Before patch was too fast, after is too slow, half way between those extremes should be about just right.

[pad152]

I agree training is too slow now, plus training in shorter scenarios will be completely useless.

You can lose more pilots to op losses faster then you can train them!

Would like to see training for night time!

[erstad]

ORIGINAL: vaned74

Central Blue - can you post more details about how you are achieving this success. I tried the technique in the other thread you posted and had no luck.

And could you confirm which version you're running?

[Sheytan]

Agreed.

Edited to add, the game plays very differently against a human opponent as you noted. I am strongly adverse to tilting the game in either direction without warrent. WITP was IJFB heaven, AE seems to strike a excellent balance, lets not let the nerf bandwagon derail a otherwise outstanding game.

As has further been noted in other topics, for those of you whom wish to see various things changed as you see fit...you can mod it to do so, do not presume to assume what you may view as disfunctional is how everyone else sees it.

ORIGINAL: crsutton

No, not yet. I still think it is too early to start demanding radical changes. Most players are not that far along and there should be a little more testing.

Also, I have started an email game against a human and am discovering that everything that I thought was wrong with the game (subs & ASW to name two) are working completely different when faced with a skilled human opponent.

I am not saying that these are bad ideas just that

I need more time.

[Pascal_slith]

ORIGINAL: Sheytan

Agreed.

Edited to add, the game plays very differently against a human opponent as you noted. I am strongly adverse to tilting the game in either direction without warrent. WITP was IJFB heaven, AE seems to strike a excellent balance, lets not let the nerf bandwagon derail a otherwise outstanding game.

As has further been noted in other topics, for those of you whom wish to see various things changed as you see fit...you can mod it to do so, do not presume to assume what you may view as disfunctional is how everyone else sees it.

ORIGINAL: crsutton

No, not yet. I still think it is too early to start demanding radical changes. Most players are not that far along and there should be a little more testing.

Also, I have started an email game against a human and am discovering that everything that I thought was wrong with the game (subs & ASW to name two) are working completely different when faced with a skilled human opponent.

I am not saying that these are bad ideas just that

I need more time.

I agree more time is needed before reaching any conclusions, so I won't agree or disagree for the moment with the proposed changes.

However, where with the editor can you modify the rate at which training adds to experience, Sheytan?

[CV Zuikaku]

ORIGINAL: Sheytan

Agreed.

Edited to add, the game plays very differently against a human opponent as you noted. I am strongly adverse to tilting the game in either direction without warrent. WITP was IJFB heaven, AE seems to strike a excellent balance, lets not let the nerf bandwagon derail a otherwise outstanding game.

As has further been noted in other topics, for those of you whom wish to see various things changed as you see fit...you can mod it to do so, do not presume to assume what you may view as disfunctional is how everyone else sees it.

ORIGINAL: crsutton

No, not yet. I still think it is too early to start demanding radical changes. Most players are not that far along and there should be a little more testing.

Also, I have started an email game against a human and am discovering that everything that I thought was wrong with the game (subs & ASW to name two) are working completely different when faced with a skilled human opponent.

I am not saying that these are bad ideas just that

I need more time.

First of all, I don't see how only IJFB would benefit from those changes. It would be good for both sides. But if you are satisfied with pilots gaining no experience in combat, losses of experince when pilots enter or being drawn from reserve pool (which nullifies whole training process which is now too long) or useless training, then I suppose that you might say we are asking too much.
BTW, I hae good air HQ's in all bases where I conduct training, and they don's seem to help at all...

[CV Zuikaku]

ORIGINAL: Pascal


I agree more time is needed before reaching any conclusions, so I won't agree or disagree for the moment with the proposed changes.

However, where with the editor can you modify the rate at which training adds to experience, Sheytan?

No-where [:D]

[Sheytan]

Wasnt aware of the fact this cant be modded, if in fact no experience is bieng gained via combat missions then this is clearly a issue that needs to be addressed.

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku

ORIGINAL: Pascal


I agree more time is needed before reaching any conclusions, so I won't agree or disagree for the moment with the proposed changes.

However, where with the editor can you modify the rate at which training adds to experience, Sheytan?

No-where [:D]