Different refuel settings - and I missing something?

[Chad Harrison]

Hi all

I posted this is in the Naval thread, and upon suggestion, I thought I would bring it out here and see if anyone knows. My original post follows:

I just wanted to check in here as to how the whole: Minimal, Tactical, Full refuel options *should* be working. I can not get them to work on my end and the manual is kind of mum about how exactly they should work ingame.

My understanding is that a TF set to either minimal or tactical refuel options would only draw enough fuel needed for its current assignment plus a little extra depending on whether it was minimal or tactical. So for instance, I have a cargo TF go from San Diego to Sydney. Once it gets to Sydney, it does not have enough fuel for the home run - but I dont want it to fully refuel because it only needs a little extra to make it home to San Diego. So I set it to *minimal* refuel, and hit *refuel TF from port*. All the ships fully top off. Even when I try it if the TF starts at SD, has a destination of Sydney but a home of SD and is set to *minimal* refuel, it will either not automatically refuel at all in Sydney so it has enough bunker for the leg home.

So anyways, how should it work? Do you have to let it do it on its own, or should it still work if you manually order a TF to refuel?

Again, this is most likely operator error. But I just want to make sure that it is working as designed and I am just missing something (which is . . . ? )

Thanks in advance!

Chad

So am I missing something? John suggested that this may only be for at sea refueling. Is this the case? So in other words, you can control how much they take at sea via replinishment TF's (or any TF I would assume), but if you fuel up at a port, its either all or nothing.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

As always, thanks in advance!

Chad

[stuman]

Darn good question. Inquiring minds want to know.

[Rob Brennan UK]

I think the refuel setting is for the AI to automate re-fuelling. By overriding the AI and manually re-fuelling you get max load.

But thats a complete guess tbh.

[bsq]

It's supposed to go like this:

Minimal = Total of remaining journey plus a margin of 10%
Tactical = Total of remaining journey plus a margin of 50%

A TF has 200 hex round trip from port A to port C goes via port B (half way between). The ships can do a 200 hex round trip on full bunkers.

Port B settings = minimal therefore TF loads up to 165 hexes of fuel (150 + 10%)

Port C settings = tactical therefore TF loads up to 150 hexes of fuel (100 + 50%) then TF routes directly back (no further refuel).

Arrives back at port A with 50 hexes of fuel in the bunkers.

Least-ways that's how I read the manual on this setting and that's how I configure my CS convoys.

[Chad Harrison]

But its not working that way at the ports - as far as I can tell. I cant get the computer to partially fuel at the ports. And if I try to partially fuel, no matter the setting, it fuels it up completely (assuming there is enough fuel at the port).

All I want to know is how it *should* be working. That way I know its either WAD or a bug.

Thanks

Chad

[byron13]

Could the problem be that you are manually refueling? Maybe if you set a destination and a different return port and then leave the ship alone, it will automatically refuel per the instructions at the destination hex prior to return.

[Chad Harrison]

I tried to setup a situation like that as follows:

1. Create TF on West Coast.
2. Set DH to Sydney, set unload cargo, and keep West Coast base as home port.
3. Setup waypoints, have TF return using same waypoints.
4. And finally, set the TF to 'Minimal Refuel'

In my mind, the TF would sail to Sydnel, unload, calculate the fuel needed to get home and top off (plus the pad for minimal) for the return trip.

However, everytime that I try to do this, the TF does *not* refuel at all. Again, this may very well be operation error. But I can not get this to work. Its a small problem though, and there are ways around it (manually refuel one or two ships at a time until entire TF has enough to get home).

I just want to know how it *should* be working. Was this setting only intended for replenishment at sea? Or should it be possible to get it to work at ports also?

Thanks in advance.

Chad

[Don Bowen]

Yes, refuel options should work for both waypoint and destination refueling. Is there enough fuel at the destination? Do you have a save just before the TF reaches the refuel point?

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


Yes, refuel options should work for both waypoint and destination refueling. Is there enough fuel at the destination? Do you have a save just before the TF reaches the refuel point?

Thanks for dropping in Don.

Yes there is plenty of fuel at the destination. I dont have a save, but if you would like, I could create one.

Also, should it work if I manuall do it? In other words, set it to minimal or tactical refuel, dock the TF, and hit 'Refuel from port' - no matter what the setting is, its going to fully refuel. I can confirm without a doubt that if that is suppose to be working, it is not.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

Yes there is plenty of fuel at the destination. I dont have a save, but if you would like, I could create one.

Also, should it work if I manuall do it? In other words, set it to minimal or tactical refuel, dock the TF, and hit 'Refuel from port' - no matter what the setting is, its going to fully refuel. I can confirm without a doubt that if that is suppose to be working, it is not.

Not exactly sure I understand exactly what the issue is. Go ahead and attach the save and I'll take a look (once the coffee is ready).

[jhdeerslayer]

I have had the exact questions myself. It seems that when I have TF's set up to minimal refuel, I end up with TF's running out of fuel on the way home. I learned not to trust this function at all but never bothered to complain which is shame on me.

I have noticed the manual thing also. It ignores your setting and just does Full Refuel. I can live with that but the Automatic Minimum, Tactical thing just does not seem to work right or I am totally missing something. I too am talking about standard LA/SF to Sydney runs where I have tons of fuel at the turn around port.

[Don Bowen]

A save, anyone?

[jhdeerslayer]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


A save, anyone?

I bet that would help! I assume you want one just before the TF enters port and then days later after it leaves? If so, let me send something up when I can.

[Chad Harrison]

Working on it now. Just give me a second . . .

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

Working on it now. Just give me a second . . .

Sorry, was not clear. Can see the use of controls for refueling at a port. What I need is a save with the "running out of fuel" issue.

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Sorry, was not clear. Can see the use of controls for refueling at a port. What I need is a save with the "running out of fuel" issue.

Okay, here is what I did. This is all the latest patch, and Guadacanal scenario (so I could put together a save quickly - but the results were the same as with Scenario 1):

1. Ran around two APD's until they no longer had enough fuel to get from Noumea to Sydney and back.
2. Disbanded old run around TF - created new Fast Transport TF.
3. Set DH to Sydney, left home port as Noumea. TF showed that it did not have enough fuel to get there and back.
4. Set to minimal refuel.
5. TF sailed to Sydney, unloaded and did not have enough fuel to get back.
6. TF DID NOT refuel at Sydeny despite the orders for a minimal refuel.
7. TF returns to Noumea with not enough fuel.

Don, I am sending you a PM with a zip file and two saves. The first save (20) is before the TF above reaches Sydney. The second save (21) is after the TF arrives at Sydney, before it has unloaded and before it has started home. The following turn it unloads, does not refuel, and returns home without enough fuel for the trip.

Hope this helps.

Chad

[Don Bowen]

I'm not exactly sure of the auto-refuel function for HUMAN controlled TFs. I'll check it out once I get the saves.

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


I'm not exactly sure of the auto-refuel function for HUMAN controlled TFs. I'll check it out once I get the saves.

Neither am I [:D]

Just sent the saves.

You can confirm the manual refuel function in either save:

1. Create a TF at Noumea with CV Wasp.
2. Set a DH beyond its current fuel range.
3. Set its refuel options to 'minimal refuel'.
4. Dock the TF and hit 'refuel from port'.
5. Despite the above setting for 'minimal refuel', it will fully top off.

Again, this may be intended.

Hope this all helps.

Chad

[Chad Harrison]

Don

Sorry to be the bearer of all bad news today, but it appears that manually refueling at sea does not work either.

After John's suggestion that the option to 'minimal' or 'tactical' refuel might be only for replinishment at sea, I thought I would try it out to see how it is working.

Heres what I did, all the latest patch and the Guad scenario:

1. Create a TF with the Wasp and DD's from Noumea, gave it a DH at sea.
2. Created and filled up a replinishment TF of AO's and DD's, moved it to the Wasp. Did not use the routing option to 'Meet and fuel'.
3. Gave the Wasp a DH of Truk and set the TF to 'Minimal refuel'.
4. Manually ordered 'Replenish TF at Sea'.
5. Wasp TF fully refuelled, even though I told it not too.

I have a save for this if you would like it.

Thanks

Chad

[Chad Harrison]

So . . .

I got even more curious, and I though I would try out a replenishment at sea with the computer doing it.

So I used the same settings as above with the Wasp and the replenishment TF, but this time I had the replenishment TF meet the Wasp and set it to refuel the Wasp's TF. I made sure that the Wasp was set to 'Minimal refuel' . . .

. . . sure enough, the Wasp fully topped off despite my orders. And fully topping off put the Wasp at almost double its needed range, well beyond the 50% of a tactical refuel, let alone 10% of the minimal.

So, atleast as far as I can tell, the 'minimal' and 'tactical' refuel options do *NOT* work under any conidtion:

1. Manually at port
2. Automatically at port
3. Manually at sea
4. Automatically at sea

Hope this all helps sort this out. Its a great feature and option ingame, so hopefully it can get sorted out.

Thanks

Chad