rationale on initial naval damage

[gwgardner]

What is the reason for the initial damage to many naval units in the '39 Campaign game?

[vonRocko]

That is a good question. I would like to know why myself.

[Flaviusx]

Old ships in decrepit shape? Partially mobilized navies at start of war?

[Michael the Pole]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Old ships in decrepit shape? Partially mobilized navies at start of war?

I don't understand it either. All of the major combatants fleets were fully mobilized by the end of the first week of September, and mechanicaly were generally in excellent shape -- certainly not the 50 to 60 percent mechanical casualties that we see in the 39 campaign. Almost all of the capital units on the board underwent major refits in the period 1936 - 39 and were quite up to date and battle worthy.

[AH4Ever]

I mentioned this somewhere before but my thoughts are since Naval Units are consider patrols, the diminished initial strength represents lack of Escort Class vessels.

[:D]

[Uxbridge]

Probably as AH4 says. I'm going to raise mine to full strength, anyway. The naval system is to scetchy to need full attention to historical detail. It's a good way to see what units will need strenghtening and which need not.

[Severian]

AH4, that's right. It represents lack of escorts.

[Michael the Pole]

ORIGINAL: Severian

AH4, that's right. It represents lack of escorts.

The problem with this is that there is no mechanism to bring these units up to full strength except as a result of repair. Most of those escorts were mobilized from the reserve fleets manned by composite crews from training establishments, reserve crews and taken as cadres from regular fleet units. They were certainly expected to be at full strength by very early on in any major war and not as the result of new construction.

Another thing that certainly applies to this issue is the arival of the 50 lend lease destroyers given to the UK by the United States in the Fall of 1940. I don't remember anything in the event file about these aquisitions.

Personally, I'd mod the game to take all ships to full strength, incrementally if possible, or at the start of 1939 if not.

[Michael the Pole]

ORIGINAL: Severian

AH4, that's right. It represents lack of escorts.

ORIGINAL: Michael the Pole
Personally, I'd mod the game to take all ships to full strength, incrementally if possible, or at the start of 1939 if not.

I'm having second thoughts about this issue. The English and the French and Italy had many, many old destroyers in reserve and would certainly have completed the flotillas of most or all of their planned squadrons, but the Germans and the minor powers, including the Soviets as a naval minor power had serious shortages of these very important smaller vessels.
Perhaps the thing to do is bring only those three major powers up to strength. It would be most accurate to do this by event sometime around the end of 1939, but it wouldnt be far off to do so at the begining of Fall Weiss.
Additionally, there are many ships of the Royal Navy that were active in the Atlantic campaigns that aren't included in the OOB, (according to Severian, for a variety of reasons such as moving in and out of theatre.) This is true to a lesser extent of the French, but almost all of the Italian Fleet is present. All things considered, I'd complete the mobilizations of those three major fleets.

[Mike Parker]

I have taken to setting everyone human and f11 enough PP to repair all Naval Units.  It makes the AI perform much better, and having a human do the first turn of the AI isn't enough to let me see too much of the opponent but it is enough to get them off to a good start.
 
I do this only for the major nations (UK US USSR FRANCE GERMANY ITALY).
 
I suppose I could edit the scenario itself to repair the damage.

[micheljq]

ORIGINAL: Michael the Pole

I'm having second thoughts about this issue. The English and the French and Italy had many, many old destroyers in reserve and would certainly have completed the flotillas of most or all of their planned squadrons.

The old destroyers from WW1 were too slow to be able to escort the latest british battleships/battlecruisers. They were just good for convoy escort duty, and this is the role it was given to most of them. Even the 50 old destroyers that came for the U.S. lend lease, at one point, most of them were used for convoy escort duties.