Suggested Change for next patch 1.7?

[Mike Parker]

This could either be a fairly easy change or a real nasty one. But I feel compeled to ask for it.

I recently started my first pbem game, 5 players. And the way events are handled is just plain overwhelming. Currently all the events get processed between turns (at the end of a turn I suspect right before it begins the next turn). What this means is that its possible that everyone playing gets an additional email step added into the process. So for example right now.

Email 1 - German Takes his turn emails to Italy
Email 2 - Italy takes his turn emails to UK
Email 3 - UK takes his turn and Emails to France
Email 4 - France takes his turn and Emails to USSR
Email 5 - USSR takes his turn and events occur USSR emails to Germany
Email 6 - Germany handles his events and emails to Italy
Email 7 - Italy handles his events and emails to UK
Email 8 - UK handles his events and emails to France
Email 9 - France takes his events and emails to USSR
Email 10 - USSR handles his events then emails to Germany to begin the next turn

Now its unlikely that all 5 players will be controlling a power with an event, but this represents what COULD happen. Although I am not entirely sure, it is possible that when the USSR completes his turn perhaps his events happen immediatly to save an email, I am unsure how that works?

The problem is that is ALOT of potential emails. What would be MUCH better is to instead of having a single event phase between turns is to have the events trigger in between each powers turn that are relevant to that power. That way in pbem each power can take their turn then deal with any events relevant to them.

I would envision a phase (invisible to the players) where events are triggers that happens at the beginning of a turn, just like at the end but it happens at the beginning and events are sorted into which power needs to deal with them. Then a player takes his turn, of course during a turn additional events might be generated (like capture of Kiev etc.) that might need to be handled you just add them to the respective stack of events for each power to be dealt with in their next events phase.

This would mean each power handles their own events without an intervening email. It would considerably streamline the pbem procedures.

It would however mean some things would be different. An event could trigger that alters things during a turn now that used to only alter things at the end. Also events that trigger other immediate events like USSR demanding Finnish Lands and Finland responding would potentially be delayed since Finland might go before the USSR, so USSR would demand on say turn 8 and Finland would not handle the responding event till turn 9. However in no case would the USSR have to miss a turn its just the rest of the world would not know about the Russo-Finnish war until Finland responded.

So I realize there are some complications.. but it would CONSIDERABLY make pbem easier. Put your heads together if you can and consider how this could be changed.

[gwgardner]

I heartily endorse this concept of events occurring by country, rather than at the end of the complete turn.

[willgamer]

It seems it may be too late for any input, aside from bug reports, to patch 1.7.

Anraz said: "...start working on 1.7 patch (list of feature is closed)..."

tm.asp?m=2246146

[doomtrader]

What if in one turn there is an event chain like that:
Event for Germany -> Event for England -> Event for Germany -> Event for Greece -> Event for England -> Event for Greece

Many of the events depends on others.

[Mike Parker]

Doomie,
 
I agree... so it goes like this.
 
order of play Germany Italy UK France USSR
 
My Proposal
Turn n
German Event spawns Event for anyone else but lets say France for arguments sake
Turn n
France Handles the event
 
Current way
Germany and France both handle event between turn n and n+1
------
My Proposal
Turn n
Italian even spawns event for Germany
Turn n+1
Germany handles event spawned by Italy
 
Current way
Germany and Italy both handle event between turn n and n+1
 
Now we take your example
My Proposal
Turn n
Germany Spawns event for UK
Turn n
UK handles event that spawns event for Germany
Turn n+1
Germany handles event that spawns event for Greece
Turn n+1
Greece handles event that spawns event for UK
Turn n+2
UK handles event that spawns event for Greece
Turn n+2
Greece handle event
 
Current way
All the events are handled in between turn n and n+1
 
However on your last example.  This will generate just by itself 3 additional emails assuming Greece is being managed by the AI or England. If Greece is being managed by say the French player then its 5 additional emails.
 

[gwgardner]

It's very simple. Just do events pertaining to any country, whenever that country's next turn is. doesn't matter about event dependencies. if an event has a dependency, a flag will set when it fires, then when the next country turn comes around, the flag will be checked, and if set will fire the dependent event, and so on.

Do them in country sequence.

[Mike Parker]

Well Gary to be fair, I think Doomtrader is concerned about events that should fire off all at once, like when Italy goes to war with Greece.  Italy has an event that fires that causes Germany to go to war with Greece, that then has a Greek event asking the UK for help, which in turn then has the UK decide on a level of commitment or not.
 
Such a sequence currently is all resolved in one turn.. under the propsal I made it might take a turn or more to get all the events to fire.

[gwgardner]

I see no problem with delaying those fired-off events till the next relevant country turn.

Italy goes to war with Greece. Next German turn, the German player gets the event, 'do you want to go to war with Greece?', next UK turn it gets the question 'do you want go to the aid of Greece?'

Where's the problem? All those related events are triggered by flags that are set by other events. No problem

[Mike Parker]

Gary,
 
Your preachin' to the choir my man.. I am just saying there are some changes to how things will shake out.  This could also be a pbem ONLY change, or even an optional checkbox for pbem games.

[17russia]

Hi; 

Just some thoughts on what I would like to see in the next patch or two.
 
A more Agressive US IA that poses an acctual threat of a second front.
 
To beable to purchase fortifications by levels in a time delay like Ships.
 
Correcting the "plane rebases to an Island in the "Baltic and its all of a sudden out of supply and stuck).
 
Scalpa Flow.
 
Example an option for Germany to declair war on "any nation".

No more than 5% of total PP of a nation convoyed from any nation to any other nation.
 
Great Britian not being allowed to deploy units other than Australian, Indian or New Zeeland directly to Africa.
 
Great Britian having to convoy supplies to Africa.
 
No deployment of new units outside of the home country with the exception of those stated above.
 
An option to make all new units deployed (purchased) of divisional level only (upgrade to Corps later).
 
A German IA that will usually not start the Eastern Front in winter (Waste of Soviet 1/3 & 1/6 effect + movement is curtailed).
 
Carriers improving a fleets defence against enemy Tactical air.

Bombing rail centers to reduce a contries SMP

Bombing ships in port. "channel ports, etc"

Making the decision to attack Greece solely an Italian one, germany was cought off guard by this one.

Newly produced units to be deployed in home countries only

Invest in factories, like spending 25 pp to increase a factory by one point of production or what ever pp made sence, kind of like the Speer effect. And it would add an additional economic aspect to the game.

A shipping "raiders" result report on the effect they had on another country... like "Great Brittion lost total of 23  convoy points"

1.6 is a good improvement. The map is truly the best I have seen. IA needs some work but I have not seen anything like this stuff in years and I have been playing pc games since Gary put out the russian game on Apple IIc.

An old fun one for Apple IIc was Colonial Conquest. Just Ships & men and nothing else. I have always been one for challenge over graphics any day of the week.

Would also love to play test. I was in a car wreck in my youth and so I spent a good mount of time entertaining myself with games.

[Harbinger]

The Events are a turn unto itself at the end of the player turn. It's natural that they function as so.
With that in mind let's run thru the current sequence;

1. Naval Phase
1.1 Convoy Phase
Determines the outcome of previous turns allocation.

1.2 Surprise Attack Phase
Only Submarines in Raider status, and Carriers may conduct Surprise Attacks.

1.3[ Detection Phase
All units may make Detection attempt based on their Fleet Status (Raider/Regular).

1.4 Engagement Phase (this is the phase that a player see's combat on screen)
Units involved based on Detection Phase.


2. Ground/Air/Naval Movement/Combat Phase
All units may move and combat to their allowance.
Self explanatory.

3. Events Phase
This is when the events are fired for the turn. Effects are immediate. This sequences thru the pertinent countries as the progression requires.


..I might suggest an alternate sequence that goes like this:

Player turn...
1. Naval Phase
Remains the same.

2. Ground/Air/Naval Movement/Combat Phase
Remains the same.

3. Player Event Phase
Decisions made by other countries are applied.(if applicable from previous turn).
All events pertaining to the current country are announced and resolved
All events requiring input from/to others are chosen and sent to the relevant countries.

....next player turn....

2. Ground/Air/Naval Movement/Combat Phase
Remains the same.

3. Player Event Phase
Decisions made by other countries are applied.(if applicable from previous turn).
All events pertaining to the current country are announced and resolved
All events requiring input from/to others are chosen and sent to the relevant countries.

....next player turn....

[Mike Parker]

Deleted because I didn't completly read Harbingers post!

[micheljq]

ORIGINAL: 17russia

Great Britian not being allowed to deploy units other than Australian, Indian or New Zeeland directly to Africa.

Great Britian having to convoy supplies to Africa.

You forget the South Africa's units. Also, I think that India or South Africa could also convoy supplies to Africa for Commonwealth.

I want to suggest to 2 events.

1. An event for the collapse of the Vichy regime which happened in august 1942 and also the scuttling of the Vichy french fleet (edit : In Toulon or Metropolitan Vichy France).

2. An event for the surrender of Italy which should be rolled when the following conditions occur:
- Tripoli allied controlled
- Sicily controlled by the allies
- Rome or a city of mainland Italy (Sicily not included) controlled by the allies
- A certain ammount of allies units in mainland Italy (to be determined)

Historically Italy surrendered in summer 1943, at about the same time the allies were landing in Salerno. The rest of the fighting in Italy was against the germans.

[Radar8717]

Some more future or 1.7 changes to consider for the SMP rules:
SMP movement should not be allowed if a unit is in any enemy ZOC. At minimum, there should be no SMP moves allowed in North Africa for the Axis. Bombing rail centers or cities, to reduce a country's SMP with SAC and/or TAC would add another layer of strategy to the air war part of the game. I love this game.