Japanese aircraft production

[Runyon]

I am still learning this game, but enjoy it very much. I have two questions that I'm hoping players experienced with the Japanese economy can answer.

Currently I am playing scenario 2 as Japanese v. the AI. In doing some research on historical Japanese aircraft production numbers, I found the following:

1941 - 5,088 aircraft (including 1,080 fighters, 1,461 bombers)
1942 - 8,861 (2,935 f, 2,433 b)
1943 - 16,693 (7,147 f, 4,189 b)
1944 - 28,180 (13,811 f, 4,189 b)
1945 - 11,066 (5,474 f, 1,934 b)

My game is in early 1942, and I am on track to produce about 5,300 aircraft of all types during the course of the year. In order to meet historical numbers, I am going to have to ramp up production significantly, then double it next year, and nearly double it again the following year. The number of resources necessary to build the frames and engines necessary to meet these numbers seems overwhelming, and I would have to expand nearly every factory several times. Are these goals even realistically possible within the game's production model? If so, is this something I should even be attempting to do, or are there severe repercussions that I need to be aware of?

Thanks

[Mike Solli]

Do the numbers you quote include trainers?  Trainers are abstracted in the game and not produced.
 
I'd be very careful increasing production too quickly.  You run the risk of sucking up much needed supply and wrecking your economy.  I'd pace out any economic increases, especially during the expansion phase (~6 months) of the war.

[treespider]

Tread lightly...Your HI factories will produce HI Points from the Resources that are shipped to them. The HI Points are warehoused until spent.

If you expand existing early war aircraft factories too much too early, you will spend HI points on early war aircraft that you may not necessarily need, when you could have saved the HI points for later.

Later on, as R&D is completed, you will have factories coming online that produce more advanced aircraft. Better to use your HI points on these planes....IMO.

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: Runyon

1941 - 5,088 aircraft (including 1,080 fighters, 1,461 bombers)
1942 - 8,861 (2,935 f, 2,433 b)
1943 - 16,693 (7,147 f, 4,189 b)
1944 - 28,180 (13,811 f, 4,189 b)
1945 - 11,066 (5,474 f, 1,934 b)

I think Mike Solli hit your problem on the head. When you compare your "5300" to the total number of fighters and bombers built historically, you are pretty much "on target".

[Jonathan Pollard]

Also keep in mind that on the 1st of each month you'll take a massive HI hit, 5 HI for every pilot in training. I assume this is to represent HI spent on the training aircraft that the newbs wreck.

[pad152]

The trick is to pick one or two fighters and one or two bombers, trying to build everything will lead to economic crash. Put all of the R&D into one naval fighter and one army fighter, same with bombers for each year.
Also don't forget engines, there is nothing worst to see you favorite fighter to go into production only to find out you are no longer building enough engines of the right type. Nothing will end the game faster than expanding one too many factories! always save your game just before making any changes to factories, I've learned that lesson the hard way!! WitpTracker for AE is great to see what you are spending HI on and the required resources, help with tracking engine production/use, plus the effect/cost of any changes.

[xj900uk]

Drop the Nate & build the Oscar I & II for the JAAF.  Best advice going

[Mike Solli]

Are you playing with PDU on or off?  That makes a big difference.

[vlcz]

tricks and advices (most of them very apropiate anyway) aside ... are those production numbers reachable/advisable in game? ..even discounting trainers seems a huge expansion

1941 - 5,088 aircraft (including 1,080 fighters, 1,461 bombers)
1942 - 8,861 (2,935 f, 2,433 b)
1943 - 16,693 (7,147 f, 4,189 b)
1944 - 28,180 (13,811 f, 4,189 b)
1945 - 11,066 (5,474 f, 1,934 b)

[Micke II]

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Pollard

Also keep in mind that on the 1st of each month you'll take a massive HI hit, 5 HI for every pilot in training. I assume this is to represent HI spent on the training aircraft that the newbs wreck.

Where is it possible to find this information ? I have seen nothing in the rules concerning this aspect.

[Mike Solli]

Seems high to me. Also, keep in mind that all the Japanese training air units that arrive late game have their aircraft with them. I think these numbers far exceed what we "see" in the game.



Just a bit of math to (very roughly) estimate HI use from these numbers:



Assumptions:

Fighters = 1 engine

Bombers = 2 engines

[n01487477]

Do-able?
I think the 42-43 is possible and an average of 44-45 might be attainable, but probably impossible given the supply constraints in AE ...

Remember these figures are from the beginning of the year ... If I'm wrong I apologise.

1941 - 5,088 aircraft (including 1,080 fighters, 1,461 bombers) -- Well Japan starts at 375/Mth = 4500 (588 down on '41) Need 424/mth, expansion of 49 (49000 supplies)
1942 - 8,861 (2,935 f, 2,433 b) 375 + 83/ mth (over the year) in 42 = 458 Need 738, expansion of 280 (280,000+ supplies)
1943 - 16,693 (7,147 f, 4,189 b) need 1391/mth (1391-738=653) or 653,000 supplies
1944 - 28,180 (13,811 f, 4,189 b)need 2348/mth (2348-1391=957) or 957,000 supplies
1945 - 11,066 (5,474 f, 1,934 b)

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Micke II

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Pollard

Also keep in mind that on the 1st of each month you'll take a massive HI hit, 5 HI for every pilot in training. I assume this is to represent HI spent on the training aircraft that the newbs wreck.

Where is it possible to find this information ? I have seen nothing in the rules concerning this aspect.

I've never seen it in the rule book. Some of the developers have mentioned it after someone noticed that HI took a big, unexplained hit on the first of every month.

[n01487477]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Pollard
Also keep in mind that on the 1st of each month you'll take a massive HI hit, 5 HI for every pilot in training. I assume this is to represent HI spent on the training aircraft that the newbs wreck.


Where is it possible to find this information ? I have seen nothing in the rules concerning this aspect.

Undocumented but there ... TrackerAE 1.2 has it included ...

[n01487477]

tm.asp?m=2243639

This thread has some info ... sorry Mike, I seem to be shadowing you tonight

[vaned74]

Hey Mike - the HI numbers in your chart above are a little off. The column HI (month) is actually for the year. The column HI (day) is not valid (1/30th of the month which was actually the year).

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: vaned74

Hey Mike - the HI numbers in your chart above are a little off. The column HI (month) is actually for the year. The column HI (day) is not valid (1/30th of the month which was actually the year).

Oops, you're right. Those are annual production figures, not monthly production figures. [:D]

How's this:

[Runyon]

Thanks for the advice, input, and explanations. I continue to learn more about this game every day, in no small part to reading these forums.

Do the numbers you quote include trainers? Trainers are abstracted in the game and not produced.

That's a good point. I'm pretty sure the numbers do include trainers, as well as recon, transport, liaison, and anything else the military used. I wasn't aware how the game handled trainers. This makes reaching the goals seem a little easier. The number for bombers includes single engine bombers such as Kates and Vals too. I imagine the late war production numbers include a lot of cheap planes built for one way trips too.

Are you playing with PDU on or off? That makes a big difference.

I do have PDU on.

The trick is to pick one or two fighters and one or two bombers, trying to build everything will lead to economic crash. Put all of the R&D into one naval fighter and one army fighter, same with bombers for each year.

This is what I'm going to try to do, based on the theory that fewer, better planes are better than a whole lot of junk.

I still only have a vague notion of the big economic picture, but the daily breakdown in HI helps. I'm also trying understand how to best make use of the information in Tracker.

Even if the economy can build all these planes, will there be enough pilots to fly them?

[ChezDaJez]

Even if the economy can build all these planes, will there be enough pilots to fly them?

You'll always have enough pilots to fly them. How well they fly them is a different subject. [:'(]

Chez

[Mike Solli]

Well put, Chez. [:D]