Diplomacy (plus, strategic thinking/planning)

[martok]

I admit that diplomacy in grand strategy games has long been sort of my "thing". Not in terms of depth or complexity per se, but in how well the AI handles diplomacy between itself and other factions (both human- and AI-controlled).

I really appreciate games where the AI behaves (at least somewhat) realistically/intelligently in interacting with both myself and other AI-controlled factions. Sadly, games like this appear to be all too rare.

Too many times, I've seen the AI attack a single city/province/planet that I left under-defended....except that it completely failed to notice I had stationed my Huge Monster Fleet/Army of Doom just a hundred miles/parsecs away (as a "rapid-response force" for defending my borders). Too many times, I've had the AI reject my offer of a peace treaty, even when I have it down to its last planet/territory. Also, if I had a dollar for every time I was attacked by a nation only 1/10 my size, I could probably pay off my car! And I can't even tell you the number of times where I raised the siege on a neighbor's city/province, only to have him express his gratitude by invading my capital a couple turns later. [:@]

That last point leads me into my next one: Frequently, the AI doesn't seem to remember when you've done nice things for it (i.e., liberated some of its cities/planets from foreign occupation several turns ago, loaned/gifted money and ships to help it fight a war against someone, gifted it some valuable technologies for free, etc.). Too often, AI-controlled empires/races/factions appear to have no memory of the things you've done to help them out.



So with all that said, how good will the diplomacy in Armada 2526 be? Or more specifically, how adept will the AI be at handling diplomacy? I realize no AI can ever be truly intelligent (at least not with our current level of technology), but it would be nice to at least see the AI *not* behave suicidally all the time.

[Tom_Holsinger]

From the Wargamer review:

... A diplomatic layer allows players to make deals with other races, and trades can run nearly the complete gamut of assets a player might possess: technology, money, ships, trading rights, technology, even complete star systems. In addition, players have the option to offer these trades with a degree of nuance that I cannot recall in another game’s diplomatic system. Players may offer items as gifts, request counter offers if the trade is unacceptable, demand an item, and even demand an item with the threat of war if it is refused. While diplomacy isn’t the central feature of the game, such a well considered design lends itself well to a strategy genre where players often clamor for more diplomatic options.

[martok]

I read that as well, but it doesn't really answer my question(s). I'm less concerned with the depth/complexity of diplomatic options (although of course "more" is nearly always appreciated) than I am with how the AI behaves vis-a-vis diplomacy.


Will the AI have the sense to sue for peace if it's losing a war (especially if it's the one who started it)? If it declares war, will it usually have the sense to *not* attack someone twice its own size (unless it has friends helping out)? Does the AI honor alliances? If it breaks an alliance, will it at least usually have a compelling reason for doing so? Does helping out the AI when you don't have an alliance significantly increase the likelihood that you can get an alliance with them? Are alliances actually worthwhile (i.e., can/will the AI assist you in any way?)?

These are the things I'm curious to find out about.

[Ntronium]

One thing I've learned doing this game is that doing good diplomacy is hard, and I've spent much longer on it than I anticipated To answer Martok's points.

The A.I. bases its decisions on whether to attack you on strategic factors, not the presence of targets of opportunity.  It also isn't programmed to be continually at war with a human player who's winning, and frequently proposes peace offers.

It honors non aggression pacts and alliances, but these have time limits, so there is no guarantee that it will renew. It also honors defensive alliances by declaring war on player's who've attacked you, and sometimes you get WW1 like situations where chains of defensive alliances get triggered pulling the whole galaxy into war. Sometimes it will give you gifts or generous trades if you're at war with someone it considers overpowerful.

The diplomacy system tracks how much each A.I. player trusts you and likes you based on what's happened in the game, and the deals you've made with it. However, the fact that it likes you doesn't prevent it attacking you if you don't have a non aggression pact, so you can't guarantee peace by just giving it small gifts.

[Iceman]

So true

[martok]

Many thanks for your answers, Ntronium! This was a more extensive response than I'd dare hope for -- and it's nearly all things that I wanted to hear. [8D]

ORIGINAL: Ntronium

One thing I've learned doing this game is that doing good diplomacy is hard, and I've spent much longer on it than I anticipated To answer Martok's points.

The A.I. bases its decisions on whether to attack you on strategic factors, not the presence of targets of opportunity.  It also isn't programmed to be continually at war with a human player who's winning, and frequently proposes peace offers.

These two things alone are music to my ears. (Even if you had done nothing else, I would still be dancing to this.) Very good news indeed!

ORIGINAL: Ntronium

It honors non aggression pacts and alliances, but these have time limits, so there is no guarantee that it will renew. It also honors defensive alliances by declaring war on player's who've attacked you, and sometimes you get WW1 like situations where chains of defensive alliances get triggered pulling the whole galaxy into war. Sometimes it will give you gifts or generous trades if you're at war with someone it considers overpowerful.

Outstanding! I very much look forward to seeing this in action.

One follow-up question, however: Will AI players give you these gifts and/or generous trades (to help out against an overly-strong faction) even if you're not formally allied?

ORIGINAL: Ntronium

The diplomacy system tracks how much each A.I. player trusts you and likes you based on what's happened in the game, and the deals you've made with it. However, the fact that it likes you doesn't prevent it attacking you if you don't have a non aggression pact, so you can't guarantee peace by just giving it small gifts.

Fair enough. I wouldn't expect a neighboring empire to remain docile if we had no formal treaty anyway.

I do have one question on that last part: You say that giving small gifts an AI player doesn't guarantee peace. Can small gifts at least still help keep an AI player off your back, though? Or are they only really worth giving if you have some sort of treaty with them?

[Ntronium]

If you're nice to the AI in diplomacy, it remembers and will like you more. This means you have more chance of getting a favorable deal when you need it, and it has a tendency to attack players it doesn't like more than ones it does. However, it is primarily a wargame, and the a.i. needs to be active in starting wars, and sometimes you'll be the only viable target, however much it likes you.

[Dodanodo]

I have a question, is it also possible to request an allie to attack somone, even if he is not at war with him? if so, is it also possible to request him to attack a specivic enemy colonie, rather than just someone in general. it would make alliances even more usefull and would make attacking someone together much more effective.