Resources to Honshu

[PresterJohn001]

I seem to create a cargo convoy to hoshu every turn but (according to wipstaff) my resources keep going slowly but inexorably downward. About 60 days into the game i am at approx 22.0 days resources (reserves). I am pulling from all the Japanese isles including the Northern one with the russians on it... plus some from korea and some from french indo-china....

Can it be done, do i just need more convoys???

[erstad]

It can be done, but it requires constant attention. I'm in August of 42 and mostly hovered in the upper 20's, although I just hit 30.1 for the first time in, well, forever.

Are you getting all the resources including Naha, Amani somehting, and that little one hex island to the north of Honshu? You mention Sakhalin but are you transporting from Hokkaido, Kyushu, and Shikoku?

If you are really hauling from all of those then you'll just need more from elsewhere!

[Mike Solli]

You need to import 100k resources to Honshu a day.  Yeah, that's 3 million a month.  Ship them from the other Home Islands, Korea, China and Manchuria and you'll be short ~75k a month.  I have allocated 254 hulls just for doing this.

[Q-Ball]

.....plus the hulls you need to prevent resource pooling. By devoting shipping to it I have finally whittled down Shimonseki below 500K, but Iwaki is a very tough nut due to small port size. And Aomori is about to top 900K, and climbing. It would be alot easier if Resources didn't pool in 3 or 4 places.

I suppose a fix is to stop shipping resources of any kind for 20 days, and let it all burn off!

[Mike Solli]

Resources pool at Aomori?  Hmmm...

[goran007]

hm, i had to quit playing because of resources bug. In 3 games that i started i didnt manage to get enough of it to my Industry, so the HI production crashed.

I didnt know Japan had so much trouble feeding industry with raw materials that 2/3 or more of the navy should be used for it.?

Even if that was the case unload rates in tokyo seem inadequate for the task...

[PresterJohn001]

ahh, i had missed a couple of the small islands which will help a little. I've not had a pooling problem but i've spread out the ports to which convoys go to and put plenty to Tokyo to prevent shortages.

oh.. Escorts i need more Escorts

[Swenslim]

There is nothing hard to ship and feed Japan, especially if you got few rich on resources China bases. Build for port 4 Sakhalin bases, they produce almost 6000 res per day. And of course ship resources from Hokkaido and from Shimonseki to any other base.

[stuman]

It takes some time to set it all up, but once you have studied it and allocated the right ships it , sort of, takes care of it self. But you always have to check on it. And the set up, including port expansion is important.

[offenseman]

On 12/7/41 the resource situation in or near the Home Islands is this:

Sakhalin:      Excess RES +9800/day, OIL +300/day          with 134k on hand

Hokkaido:      Excess RES +34600/day, OIL +150/day       with 580k on hand

Shikoku        Excess RES +10100/day                     with 177k on hand

Kyushu         Excess RES +21600/day                     with 921k on hand

East China/Korea   Excess RES +23500/day                  with 1.226M on hand

Taiwan         Excess RES +2200/day                        with 60k on hand

One thing I have found useful is the xAk of 5040 gross capacity.  They are just under 5000 tons for docking purposes and their are many of them. using ships of the same size keeps hulls from sitting idle as they wait for others to load.  You have to be as efficient as possible.  Use as few hulls as possible to save fuel. 

Start moving resources and forming future convoys on day one. Waiting until day two is a waste of a day.

As an example:  Send them to Toyohara, Shikuka in sizes that will be able to dock.  Set them up to take the resources to different ports. I actually run them to Hokkaido and then run convoys from Hakodate and Sapporo to Ominato and Hirosaki.  That may seem like a lot of load and unload time, but that is offset by less travel time and thus less fuel usage. I also run an additional convoy from Shikuka to Sapporo with ships that have the capability to carry oil.  Sakhalin produces some of that and it may as well go to the home islands on the same ships that run Resources.

Use every available good port.  For instance in Korea, use Shanghai, Port Moresby, Cinnampo, and Fusan.  Route the Port Arthur convoy to Hiroshima and the rest to Shimonoseki to avoid hulls waiting to dock. 

Look at how much excess the region is producing.  If you have a convoy that takes 48000 tons from Sakhalin and it takes 8 days round trip; during that time Sakhalin produced 78400 tons. You are falling behind, and need more convoys.  Everyday you have to move what the region produces plus more to get the excess stock on hand to Honshu.  After you get the excess to Honshu you can scale back your efforts to just haul what is produced everyday.

[erstad]

Largely agree with offenseman except I wouldn't unload anything at Shimoneski, and I woudl spread out HI destinations among multiple ports of resource consumers. Both to minimize dock congestion and to reduce amount of loss during shipping.

You can set up some pretty regular convoys between the HIs. There's some extreme variation in how resources move on the mainland that I haven't figured out, so those need more management.

[EUBanana]

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn
Escorts i need more Escorts

No you don't, Mush and Haggard might get hurt. [:D]

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: goran007

hm, i had to quit playing because of resources bug. In 3 games that i started i didnt manage to get enough of it to my Industry, so the HI production crashed.

I didnt know Japan had so much trouble feeding industry with raw materials that 2/3 or more of the navy should be used for it.?

Even if that was the case unload rates in tokyo seem inadequate for the task...

It's actually closer to 1/3 of the cargo ships. You start out with ~900 and need <300 to do the job.

[offenseman]

ORIGINAL: erstad

Largely agree with offenseman except I wouldn't unload anything at Shimoneski, and I woudl spread out HI destinations among multiple ports of resource consumers. Both to minimize dock congestion and to reduce amount of loss during shipping.

You can set up some pretty regular convoys between the HIs. There's some extreme variation in how resources move on the mainland that I haven't figured out, so those need more management.

Why not Shimonoseki? It is a Size 9 port and only two hexes from Fusan or Fukuoka. Shortens up travel time and fuel uses for convoys routing from those two locations by a lot.

[Mike Solli]

Shimonoseki tends to horde resources, often at or near the max 999,999.&nbsp; We'll see what patch 2 does for that....

[pompack]

ORIGINAL: goran007

hm, i had to quit playing because of resources bug. In 3 games that i started i didnt manage to get enough of it to my Industry, so the HI production crashed.

I didnt know Japan had so much trouble feeding industry with raw materials that 2/3 or more of the navy should be used for it.?

Even if that was the case unload rates in tokyo seem inadequate for the task...

Not a bug, just a way of life for Japan. As you say, you cannot use just one port to unload. As Mike says up above, you need 3 million a month; if you can work a 10 day cycle, that is 1 million tons of shipping dedicated to hauling resources to Honshu. It is actually a little easier than that since you can pick up a lot in the other HI and maintain about a five day cycle for about half of it. None the less, you will need at least 500,000 tons of shipping dedicated to the task and that means multiple destination ports to prevent congestion.

As to youe 2/3 comment, why do you thing Japan has so many cargo ships? They were not just sitting idle before the war!

[offenseman]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Shimonoseki tends to horde resources, often at or near the max 999,999.  We'll see what patch 2 does for that....

Wouldn't rail send them where needed? Argh! lol I'll pay attention to that as well as my other main ports of entry for resources.

[erstad]

ORIGINAL: offenseman

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Shimonoseki tends to horde resources, often at or near the max 999,999.  We'll see what patch 2 does for that....

Wouldn't rail send them where needed? Argh! lol I'll pay attention to that as well as my other main ports of entry for resources.

The beta patch 2 seems to push stockpiles to big resource consumers like Osaka and Tokyo. So the answer on Shimoneseki may be changing, depending on what actually gets into patch 2.
(Even with Shomoneseki empty, you lose less resources from transport attrition if you drop them where they are needed, although it's been mentioned this could change in patch 2. (which also means it might not))

[brett9983]

I ran a test to try to get an idea how resources flow from Kyushu to Honshu if they do at all. This is using the new Beta patch. My findings were a little disturbing but hopefully someone can explain what I don't understand and hopefully I made enough sense that this can be followed.
&nbsp;
After a historic first turn, December 8th finds Fukuoka with 984,916 resources. Without doing anything on the Dec. 8 turn, there are 992,999 resources there on Dec. 9th. The number of resources at all other bases on Kyushu remain unchanged. Presumably, everything flowed to Fukuoka. Kyushu produces a surplus of 21,600 resources (if my math is right) so that means that some of those must have flowed to Honshu right?
&nbsp;
So then I went back to the Dec. 8th turn and loaded all of the transports sitting in Fukuoka with resources. This amounted to 28,118 resources which loaded in a single turn. After running the turn though, Fukuoka still jumped to 992,999 resources. The amount of resources at all other bases on Kyushu still did not change. So this time resources flowed from Honshu to Kyushu. This isn't what we want.
&nbsp;
Then I went back and checked the overall total of resources for Japan in the Industry/Resource screen. On December 8th it is 7,283,719. After running the turn without loading anything onto transports, it drops to 7,201,426. After running&nbsp;the turn they were loaded onto transports it drops to 7,182,109. My understanding is this screen does not reflect anything carried on transports so adding in the 28,118 that were loaded on transports Japan has a total of 7,210,227 resources. So almost 9,000 more than it did when I didn't load them onto transports.
&nbsp;
So what happened to the 9,000 resources when they weren't loaded on transports? Can that much really be explained by attrition?

[pompack]

ORIGINAL: brett9983

I ran a test to try to get an idea how resources flow from Kyushu to Honshu if they do at all. This is using the new Beta patch. My findings were a little disturbing but hopefully someone can explain what I don't understand and hopefully I made enough sense that this can be followed.

After a historic first turn, December 8th finds Fukuoka with 984,916 resources. Without doing anything on the Dec. 8 turn, there are 992,999 resources there on Dec. 9th. The number of resources at all other bases on Kyushu remain unchanged. Presumably, everything flowed to Fukuoka. Kyushu produces a surplus of 21,600 resources (if my math is right) so that means that some of those must have flowed to Honshu right?

So then I went back to the Dec. 8th turn and loaded all of the transports sitting in Fukuoka with resources. This amounted to 28,118 resources which loaded in a single turn. After running the turn though, Fukuoka still jumped to 992,999 resources. The amount of resources at all other bases on Kyushu still did not change. So this time resources flowed from Honshu to Kyushu. This isn't what we want.

Then I went back and checked the overall total of resources for Japan in the Industry/Resource screen. On December 8th it is 7,283,719. After running the turn without loading anything onto transports, it drops to 7,201,426. After running the turn they were loaded onto transports it drops to 7,182,109. My understanding is this screen does not reflect anything carried on transports so adding in the 28,118 that were loaded on transports Japan has a total of 7,210,227 resources. So almost 9,000 more than it did when I didn't load them onto transports.

So what happened to the 9,000 resources when they weren't loaded on transports? Can that much really be explained by attrition?

It's actually much worse than that. Check this thread:

tm.asp?m=2304142&mpage=1&key=&#2305493

In the tests that I ran the average DAILY loss was 26,903 for the first 12 days.

Transport wastage is really high. The Devs are looking at it.