How is the AI?

[Grotius]

How is Harpoon ANW as a single-player game? I like multiplayer as much as the next person, but I do much of my wargaming solitaire. Is Harpoon mostly a multiplayer title? I recall enjoying the first iteration as a single-player game, many moons ago.

[hermanhum]

In a word, the ANW AI is retarded.

Or, in more PC terms, "Demonstrates a lack of challenge to the Human player."  [;)]

Your nostalgic memory of a fairly decent Harpoon AI is most likely the previous version (3.6.3) and is a far cry from the current state of the ANW (3.9.4) version.

A really good example of how bad the ANW AI currently is can be seen here:
fb.asp?m=2133270

and here:
fb.asp?m=2134206

In summary, the AI is simply unable to prosecute quiet submarines controlled by the human player.  The AI will just let you sail a sub right into the middle of its formation(s).  Instead, entire clouds of ASW helos and planes will follow a submarine contact around for hours without ever firing a shot at it.

This defect is supposedly fixed for the upcoming version 3.10 release.  However, until it is publicly released and independently confirmed, I would be hesitant to believe any claims made by AGSI.

[Grotius]

Thanks for your reply!

[Anonymous]

Hello,

ORIGINAL: Grotius

How is Harpoon ANW as a single-player game? I like multiplayer as much as the next person, but I do much of my wargaming solitaire. Is Harpoon mostly a multiplayer title? I recall enjoying the first iteration as a single-player game, many moons ago.

IMO 3.9.4 is not only well playable but a good AI opponent, too. Right now I´m playing one of my long-time favourites, "To Protect the Queen", both under 3.6 and 3.9.4.

In addition to that, 3.9.4 has the really game extending feature of ship-to-ship UnRep and 3.10 allows taking of ships and land facilities.

So far, regarding air combat, the 3.9.4 ANW AI is at least as aggressive as the 3.6 AI. The AI controlled Flankers are killing my Tornados and even got a Sentry. This is in no way minor compared to 3.6.

I´ll test the anti-sub behaviour of the AI soon, my subs are approaching the red fleet. I´ll use creep speed, as was mentioned in order to see if the subs come through.

Regards,
Ralf

[Anonymous]

Ok, done some testing of the ASW behaviour.

1. Harpoon 3.6.2

I was able to drive my Trafalgar class SSN into the outer ring of the formation at creep speed. Fired several torpedo salvos and got three ships of the outer ring. Then came a wall of hostile torps and my sub was sunk although it kept creeping all the time.
Another thing was that the ship contacts were harder to make and it was harder to get target solutions than with ANW.

2. Harpoon ANW 3.9.4

Again I drove my sub at creep speed into the formation; without problems into the inner ring. Fired torps without any counterfire and got the carrier, the BCGN - the HVUs. So the game was already won.

Then I accelerated to 14 knots and my sub was sunk at once.

In ANW it was easier to get firm contacts on the ships as it was in 3.6.2.

3. Harpoon ANW 3.10 RC1

Gave it a first quick shot and discovered no difference to 3.9.4. But I will test it deeper.

Resume so far: Yes, creeping subs are a huge problem for the AI. There is a much tougher resistance in 3.6.X.

Ralf

[Anonymous]

Ok, have retested it several times with 3.9.4 and the AI often got my subs, even at creep speed (when it had fired its first torp). Given the unbalanced, pro-sub situation in that scen (shallow water, subs lurking in the carrier group´s path, first line, very quiet subs) the AI worked well.

All in all I can recommend to give 3.9.4 a chance.

Enjoy Harpoon!

Ralf

[FreekS]

In my opinion the AI is as good as the scen designer has made it. The AI is in reality a series of scripted mission that the scen designer has made. A good scen designer can make it verz challenging and surprising. I wont go into the 3.6.3 vs 3.9.4 or 3.10 differences, key is IMO that the scen was wel designed.

Freek

[rsharp@advancedgamin]

I'll echo and add to Freek's comment. Technically, there is no AI. There is a barely flexible script consisting of position, pieces, and missions. We are making missions more flexible so scenario designers can fine tune them for use with more specific tasks. The scenario designer and even end user will have some control over the programmed responses. Still, this is just a new tool primarily for the scenario designer.

I've been wowed by what scenario designers have already accomplished with Harpoon over the years.

Thanks,

[hermanhum]

ORIGINAL: FreekS

In my opinion the AI is as good as the scen designer has made it. The AI is in reality a series of scripted mission that the scen designer has made. A good scen designer can make it verz challenging and surprising.

I can't agree with this. The scenario designer can only work with the tools provided to him in the form of Missions available. There are only 13 possible missions available to him. If there are game engine faults within a mission (i.e. inability to fire on unknown subsurface contacts), then there is nothing a designer can really do.

In the past, one person has tried to advocate, "Well, just select another mission to use." Of course, this is always possible. However, each mission is unique in its behaviour. While a second mission might be chosen, it is likely not optimal to the desired situation. For example, some missions operate similarly (ASuW / ASW Patrol) The reason a designer chooses one mission over the other is how the units behave under the different mission parameters. He might want his unit to concentrate more on ASuW in certain conditions so he selects the ASuW mission. If he places the ships on the similar ASW mission, they will not likely behave as well as they would under the ASuW mission.

Telling a designer to select a secondary option if the primary choice is buggy/broken is not a good decision, IMO.

[Anonymous]

ORIGINAL: FreekS

In my opinion the AI is as good as the scen designer has made it. The AI is in reality a series of scripted mission that the scen designer has made. A good scen designer can make it verz challenging and surprising. I wont go into the 3.6.3 vs 3.9.4 or 3.10 differences, key is IMO that the scen was wel designed.

Freek

All in all Signed.

Starting Point is a desired AI behaviour in order to create a challenging scen. Therefore the whole setup has to be designed; especially the missions. And if one knows how it works he can always craft challenging scens.

But if a detected sub can creep along in a formation, there is something wrong.

Ralf

[Anonymous]

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