Salutations and solicitations.... 1EyedJacks (J) vs Nemo (A)

[Nemo121]

Well, I've decided to take the plunge with AE preparatory to putting an Empires Ablaze mod for it together in the New Year. I figure I need to play the game for a bit if I'm to figure out where the pitfalls are and spot all the areas to place traps/correct oversights.

1EyedJacks was eager to play the EA mod for AE and when I counter-offered this game in order to help develop the EA mod he was happy to oblige. As he's helping the mod I gave him choice of sides etc so he chose to play as Japan. I suggested we play Scenario 2 as I believe that features an enhanced Japan and should
a: give him more goodies to play with and
b: probably be the basis for an EA mod.


So, what's the plan?
Well, I haven't gone beyond Day 1 yet in the game as I've only run Decembre 7th turns to see the new combat routines in action. So, the plan is to see how the game plays, see how 1EyedJacks approaches things and then try to do what I'd do in real life and see how it works out.

I can issue orders to units in China on Day 1 and to TFs already at sea. Apart from that 1EyedJacks gets a free shot at me. No House Rules so he can hit as many ports etc as he can reach on Day 1. I am expecting raids on Singapore, Manilla, Pearl Harbour and possibly even some of the Dutch and USN bases in the DEI/Phillipines.

This also means he can move units from Manchukuo into China without paying PP. That particular play works both ways though and the only firm plan I have is to rush a few thousand AV from China into Burma to try and make that a rock-solid base ASAP.

He should, and I believe will, try to cripple my navies on Day 1...


Oh one other thing... I'd be very interested in advice re: any oddities or differences between AE/WiTP which could scupper things and I know 1EyedJacks feels the same so I'd like to be clear that I'm perfectly happy for anyone to give him any advice/input... I say this cause I know some people are wary of giving advice to a PBEMer for fear of his opponent being upset by it. In my view the more advice the better the play and the bigger the challenge to me - which is the whole point in playing after all.

[Canoerebel]

Good to have you "back in the saddle," Nemo.  Good luck!

[aztez]

Good to see you back mate!

Sounds intresting and best of luck with this campaign! [:)]

[Canoerebel]

It's hard to "rush" Chinese troops into Burma.  The roads are long and poor, and there aren't enough units close to Burma at the start of the game. What few are close by are very weak.  If you do send Chinese troops to Burma, there aren't any supplies and I think it's impossible to hold the Mandalay area against a determined Japanese attack.  So, Chinese troops in Burma will either be retreating to India or back to China pretty soon.

[Andy Mac]

Ports ports and more ports.....much more important now

[Nemo121]

Yes, my initial conclusions are as follows:
 
1. The Allied air force should be more competitive ( this doesn't mean achieving a favourable exchange rate or even stopping bombing raids but simply the achievement of important operational, strategic objectives ) in the early war months.
 
2. Ports are much mroe important as the ability of naval forces to replenish in far-away min-harbours is now much reduced. If you want to run sustained operations in a given region you'll need a nearby base and quite significant levels of supply.
 
3. Burma is very much more cut off. The lack of trails to India makes moving overland troops and supplies a rather chancy affair. A rapid Japanese advance could take Burma by sea before the Allies can reinforce it by land. On the other hand holding Burma will draw the moth to the flame and provide some significant singeing opportunities.
 
 
I've run two turns vs the AI ( until 10th December ) and, so far, Air to Air losses are over 2 to 1 in favour of the Allied air force. Obviously some of this is due the AI sending raids against targets it shouldn't but even in the face of enemy fighters the Buffaloes and P-40s can achieve a reasonable amount. They are much more competitive. I'm interested to see what I can make of the P-400.
 
 
Naval combat: Improved. I ran three interceptions against landing forces on the 8th December and they turned out much more reasonably than they would have in WiTP. While the actual exchange of fire featured the usual overly-accurate fusilade from merchants the overall operational goal of disrupting landings was well-achieved in a manner which I don't think WiTP would have achieved.
 
 
China: The Chinese are utterly, utterly F'ed . Their situation is worse than it is in stock from what I can see. That's fine though, no point recreating EA by winning the war through China in a 2nd game. Variety is the spice of life and all that

[modrow]

Nemo,

returning from a bit of a christmas forums break, I was glad to see this nice surprise. I think this will be an AAR where I follow just one side (yours), so I can discuss and ask in here without putting operational security at risk.

Relating to your first post, let me add the following comments:

Let's start with the good news: I think psy warfare works just the same way it did in WitP - that's most likely a big advantage for you [8D].

But I think a number of the good old concepts just does not seem to work as it used to do - or at least did not for me.

I may have done something wrong, but when I tried to counter a weak invasion of Jolo by flying in a good-sized number of AV using a concentration of patrols and transports in order to change the conditions at the base quickly, I just ended up throwing the troops away as they arrived in the wrong op mode in spite of being moved while in combat mode. Rapid reaction may not work any more in the way it used to... Along similar lines, I think disruption induced during longer rides in fast transport TFs may limit their use.

Also, I have the impression that concentration of air power will not work as it used to. Penalties for too many groups at a base are more harsh, and it is more difficult to keep a group flying, so you quickly end up having a repairing group occupying a precious slot on a base for several days in a row.

Just two aspects I would mention based on my limited experience and less-than-perfect gameplay.

Hartwig

[Nemo121]

Hartwig,
 
Yes, I noticed those changes to disruption while FTing... On the other hand I've never understood why people think I'm wedded to FT TFs. Each type of TF has its use. When the right situation presents itself FT TFs are used, when not then other TFs are used.
 
Air combat and repairs... Yeah, I'm interested to see this in practice. I applaud these changes if they work to reduce overstacking and keep things realistic with limited numbers of planes operating out of individual bases and nations having to use multiple bases to get a concentration of force... much more realistic.
 
As to the change of mode while air-transporting... Yes, that makes sense. Good point and nice to see they've thought of it and reduced the effectiveness of such air-transportation.
 
 
I think that things look like they'll go much more slowly with more emphasis on the need for large ports and dispersed airfields if one is to wield sizable naval and aerial forces.

[ny59giants]

I've reached the end of 12/41 playing two day turns against Andy Mac's Ironman mod using a particular "nasty" AI script.

The experience level for Allied aircraft for ASW is really, really bad. For most it is below 30 for PBY and FP. If Mike is aggressive with his subs, he can cause some costly damage to your shipping of the west coast of USA and Hawaii. I'm still experimenting on how to conduct patrols and use the training function to gain experience in this critical area.

Like others have said, I look at the port potential first as most that have a good port potential also have a good AF potential.

If CL Boise gets into a transport TF, she will need to head for Soerabaja for reloading, so protection of ports that can reload your CLs or larger is more important than ever. I have yet to see this fact exploited to its fullest yet. [;)]

Right now I see mainly caution by players in PBEM as they conquer the learning curve. I would imagine that will change as they get into their 2 and 3 games. With your playing style, I don't think we have to wait that long.

Good Luck and Happy Hunting [:D]

[Nemo121]

Mike,
 
Well, sub attacks are like rain. It happens, sometimes you just need to suck it up and keep walking in whatever direction and whatever pace you were planning on. I'm not the sort of person to get scared off by the minor attrition of submarines... Obviously if their predations get too intensive then I'll hunt them down but, honestly, in the vast majority of my games Allied or Japanese subs weren't an unmanageable threat.
 
 
I've been looking at Java and Malaysia and have come to the conclusion that the OIL at Palembang is even more important than ever. In addition I think southern Java is now even less defensible. I am looking at putting the British reinforcements for Malaysia into Palembang and Oosthaven and drawing as many troops from Malaysia into Palembang and as many Dutch troops from Java into Sumatra as possible. There's a nice airbase there which should be immune to enemy naval bombardments and the port at Benkoelen should allow me to run small AKs in with supplies to keep things ticking over. It is a small port but, hell, it can be built up, especially if I bring a fair few supplies to the party.
 
 
Looking at airplanes things get interesting... I've been reading the fora and all of the discussion of Allied fighters fighting down low. This puzzles me though as in many situations when they fight at low level they are experiencing the greatest manoeuvre differential possible.
 
If you look at the A6M2 it has a speed of 331 mph with manoeuvre ratings of 33/33/27/21/10 at the various altitude bands ). It is unarmoured, durability is 22 and firepower is 22.
Ki-27: Speed 292, Mvr 41/33/25/17/11, Armour 0, Durability 24, firepower 0.
|Ki-43Ic: Speed 305, Mvr 46/46/37/28/19, Armr 0, Durability 23, firepower 6.
 
 
B-339D: Speed 325, Mvr 22/22/19/16/13. Durability 22, firepower 10 and no armour.
vs Zero: So, if you look at the B339 it has pretty much the same speed and manouevre differentials of -11/-11/-8/-5/+3/ So, essentially it is at a manoeuvre disadvantage at anything less than 30,000 feet but above 30,000 feet it is actually MORE manoeuvrable than the Zero.
 
vs Ki-27: Speed +33 mph, Mvr differential -19/-11/-6/-1/+2. No armour, similar durability but more firepower for the B339D.
So, essentially if you fight above 30,000 feet then everything is the in the favour of the B339Ds ( experience being equal obviously, which it never is ).
 
vs Ki-43Ic: Speed + 20, Mvr differential  -24/-24/-18/-12/-6. No armour, similar durability, but more firepower for the B339D.
So, essentially, by going up to 30,000+ you minimise your Mvr disadvantage and might get some bounces, which will result in kills since the B339s have the firepower advantage.
 
 
Applying the same logic to P39D
Faster than the A6M2, Ki27 or Ki-43c.
 
Mvr differentials
A6M2: -14/ -16 / -14 / -12 / -5 
Ki-27: -22/-16/-12/-8/-6
Ki-43c -29/-29/-24/-19/-14
 
So, again, the higher you are the less your manoeuvre disadvantage even in a dog like the P39.
 
Given the bounce advantage, speed advantage and benefits of going high in minimising Mvr disadvantages why would you try to stay low? Sure you mightn't get as many interceptions if you are up high but you'll be more survivable...

[ny59giants]

I've been looking at Java and Malaysia and have come to the conclusion that the OIL at Palembang is even more important than ever. In addition I think southern Java is now even less defensible. I am looking at putting the British reinforcements for Malaysia into Palembang and Oosthaven and drawing as many troops from Malaysia into Palembang and as many Dutch troops from Java into Sumatra as possible. There's a nice airbase there which should be immune to enemy naval bombardments and the port at Benkoelen should allow me to run small AKs in with supplies to keep things ticking over. It is a small port but, hell, it can be built up, especially if I bring a fair few supplies to the party.

You have the British 18th Division (minus one component) coming in from Cape Town. But the size of the TF and ships makes it hard to unload it at smaller ports. You have a finite number of LCUs that are not restricted that you can change commands and move. You will have to balance what patrol planes you want to pull from search to do transports. If Mike invades Singkawang with an Air HQ and places Nell/Betty there, then your ability to move shipping around the northern part of Java will be impaired. I'm not saying you cannot do it, but this is going to be one Swiss watch to see the choreograph that will be going on.[:D] Of course, there will be Psych Ops going on in the eastern part of the SRA to keep him busy. [;)]

[bklooste]

Two problems with the allied planes and high altitude are

- You cant reach it as you have a poor climb /low ceiling
- The only thing up there IS zeros. I dont think the game lets you dive like 10K yards you just miss them.


What the plan for China and especially CHangsha , are you going to move 200K troops there like histroical ?

[Nemo121]

ny59giants,

I'm toying with the idea of sending the USN CVs to India in order to have a good group of CVs with which to cover resupply convoys into northern Java.

What would this achieve:
1. It would provide my resupply with some cover vs the Betties I confidently expect to prowl around Java.

2. It would draw KB westward into the Java area where they'd have to transition predictable chokepoints in order to ambush my forces west of Java ( which I would mine/ sub patrol en masse with subs which have working torpedoes ).

3. Manoeuvristically speaking it would also be a positive for the US in the Pacific as by drawing KB into the DEI it removes them from the Pacific and gives my resupply convoys more freedom of movement and greatly lessens the threat to my LBA, increasing the effectiveness of my LBA. In short I gain more by removing my CVs and most of the IJN CVs from the Pacific than I do by concentrating my USN CVs in the Pacific vs KB.

4. If there's a CV battle then it also allows me a much higher chance of having that battle under cover of my own land-based air.

5. It ensures that when Java falls ( as it will ) that Palembang will be well and truly wrecked.

6. It buys lots of time for India and Burma.



bklooste,
1. Yes you CAN reach those altitudes... Check out the ceiling for the early-war Allied fighters. Just because most people don't use them there doesn't mean they can't go there if you order them there. Even if you have to climb to that altitude you have to bear in mind that the higher up the Japanese fighters /bombers are the farther out they get spotted by radar and, thus, the more time you have to reach altitude. Even if you don't have enough time you'll still be higher than the sub-10,000 height a lot of people seem to like ( which maximises the Allied fighters'  negative manoeuvre differential ).

2. China... No point holding too far forward. Abandon what can't be held, tie down the Japs garrisoning it, withdraw on my own supply depots, repair my own disabled squads, pick some defensive terrain and then when I've maximised the positives ( repaired disabled squads, trained up the Chinese as much as possible, maximised my supply efficiency, picked good, mutually supporting defensive positions, siphoned off several IJA divisions for garrison duties and forced the Japanese to fight at the end of long supply lines ) then I'll stand and fight. Why no-one seems to have adopted such a basic plan before in the AARs I've read surprises me greatly.



Question though:
1. Just how many hexes is it from Los Angeles to Cape Town and from Cape Town to Diego Garcia? I think I remember reading LA to Capetown is 258 but amn't sure how many from Capetown to Diego Garcia or if the 258 is right....

2. What happens if I send ships through those off-map channels at full speed? I understand fuel isn't a consideration but what about system damage? I am asking because, obviously, getting CVs to Capetown at a speed of 18 hexes per day will be a damned sight quicker than turtling them there at 8 hexes per day.



bklooste and others who mightn't have read any of my AARs before.... I focus on the economy, economy, economy. Military considerations are entirely secondary as military action won't win this war except insofar as it helps or hinders the strangling of the Japanese economy. Logistics, not artillery, BBs or CVs is the king here and Palembang appears to be the crucial point in the DEI with a daily production of 900 tons of supply and some 9000 tons of fuel. I may be wrong on those figures but that's what my understanding of the stats is. So, it can help sustain itself and destroying it would cripple Japan.

[bklooste]

Hi Nemo ,

I mainly play as Japan .

re the planes , you are right later on in the war but as a Japanese player nothing makes me happier than seeing allied fighters at 30K for the first 2 weeks.
Simply because nothing is happening up there and the engine doesnt seem to allow big altitude changes.

Agree on China . Every AAR i see they attack Ichang get bled to death ( even if they take it) and then wonder when Japan comes in with equal numbers . Changsha needs to be held at all costs It is the city Japan wants and needs at least another 200K men + Artillary. It is also very central so you attack Japan where he is weak.

I have read your AARs before and love the idea of holding Palembang as Japan i like to take it instead of Mersing (which may be well defended) after SIngapore is supressed but before its taken and it help cut off the retreat. You can also move supply to Palembang from Singapore and later to the DEI. The lack of B17s in AE makes the old let the Japanese have it early and bomb it strategy flawed. Singapore is lost DEI cant bee taken until Palembang and Kuching and Balikpapan you cant stop Kuching but make the others expensive .


Becarefull of Jolo /Tarawan at the start and mid to late December the Rabaul and PM rush , you cant stop it but you can make it expensive.

Send subs to Port Arthur..

What about aircraft are you going to avoid the meat grinder to train up ?

[Nemo121]

Avoiding the meat grinder? Ah but I thought you'd read my AARs? [8D]

No, the whole point with trying to defend southern Sumatra is to CREATE a meat grinder. I want to draw his navy, air force and army in and I want to create a situation in which those ships, planes and troops have to fight long and hard for Sumatra before, eventually, capturing it. My hope is that by the time it is captured most of the OIL centres will be destroyed and I can cause a serious OIL/Refinery shortage.

To achieve this I will need significant numbers of light combatants in the area ( DDs, MGBs etc... due to the small port sizes not being able to support CLs ) and that will necessitate having aircover. I'm hoping to mob him with numbers for a while, eventually lose the naval and air fight but have secured my ground positions by that time. At that point in time the ground units will fight it out while my air units rebuild for the defence of Burma/India.

Also even a losing fight in Sumatra creates opportunities for winning fights elsewhere...


As to Changsha... Apart from allowing the Japanese lateral communications I just don't see how it is so important. It isn't a huge centre for creating supplies, it is an obvious target and the Japanese can bring lots of troops into it from multiple bases, base multiple bomber squadrons at these bases and blast the Chinese out. In addition it is relatively easily flanked from the south-west... I doubt anyone has successfully prevented a moderately capable Japanese player from taking Changsha if the Japanese player invests the units necessary.

The bluster and noise of defending it might look good and aggressive etc but I think it is also pointless---- unless one's opponent is extremely poor and in such a situation you'll win even bigger victories elsewhere.

[Nemo121]

I've been looking at what the Allies have to ship into the DEI and so far I can identify the following units which won't cost PP and are nearby:
1. 18th UK Inf Division
2. Components of the 17th Indian Division ( spread between Karachi, on ship and Burma )
3. 46th Indian Bde ( on ship at Karachi )
 
Unfortunately the Dutch are restricted so I'm looking at holing them up at Batavia where they can guard the port and give me some capability of air and naval evacuation to Oosthaven + provide a base for CLs and CAs should the situation ever allow it. For some reason though some of the Dutch units can have their HQs changed and others can't. This isn't related to PPs as I can click on the change HQ button for a regiment or two which require 400+ PP whilst not being able to click on the change HQ button for some much smaller BFs... Hmm, not sure what's going on here.
 
The Aussies have two CD units I really want to move into Palembang and Oosthaven respectively. 5th and 7th RAA units are CD units with 16 and 4 x 6 inch guns respectively.
 

Why am I looking at southern Sumatra so concentratedly?
1. Palembang - He must take it, he must try to take it without damaging it and both of these things mean this will form a focus of his attention whilst being safe from resource bombing. In short it'll delay his offensive further north into Burma and India whilst also hurting him a lot more than uselessly losing these troops in Singapore will.
 
2. There are only 3 good bases for him to land at using naval forces: Palembang, Oosthaven and Benkoelen. This allows me to stuff these bases with artillery and CD units and really try to do a number of any invasion force.
 
3. Benkoelen provides a relatively sheltered base for me to land further forces--- assuming I can cover their ingress using CVs.
 
4. There are inland aerial bases which should be proof against his naval bombardments.
 
5. It maximises the efficiency of the small transport fleet at Singapore.
 
6. It allows me to maximise the efficiency of the small number of minelayers I have.
 
7. It is close to the exit point for shipping coming from CONUSA.  IF, through some miracle, southern Sumatra were to hold out for more than a couple of months ( unlikely in this reinforced Japan scenario ) then I could bring significant numbers of US troops, engineers and airplanes into the fray direct from CONUSA in the shortest time possible.
 
Of course he could land in a non-base hex but doing that will entail longer delays and greater risk while giving me greater time to shift reserves to the threatened sector. He'd avoid CD guns and mines but lose out in terms of the actual ground forces he'd face.
 
Overall though I think this is probably the best way to exact a significant toll in the DEI region.
 
Is there anything massive I'm missing? I do realise that I'm still struggling to figure out this whole port loading/unloading / max size of ship thing ( is it referring to ship tonnage or cargo capacity ? ) but I figure I can adapt on the fly as required.

[Rainer79]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121
For some reason though some of the Dutch units can have their HQs changed and others can't. This isn't related to PPs as I can click on the change HQ button for a regiment or two which require 400+ PP whilst not being able to click on the change HQ button for some much smaller BFs... Hmm, not sure what's going on here.

If their HQ is grayed out, these units can never be bought out with PPs. They basically have to die in place.

What you can do though, is airlift them between bases of the same restricted command.

ORIGINAL: Nemo121
Is there anything massive I'm missing? I do realise that I'm still struggling to figure out this whole port loading/unloading / max size of ship thing ( is it referring to ship tonnage or cargo capacity ? ) but I figure I can adapt on the fly as required.

ship tonnage

One thing you'll quickly find out is that motorized support takes FOREVER to unload at small ports.

[bklooste]

Avoiding the meat grinder? Ah but I thought you'd read my AARs? [8D]

No, the whole point with trying to defend southern Sumatra is to CREATE a meat grinder. I want to draw his navy, air force and army in and I want to create a situation in which those ships, planes and troops have to fight long and hard for Sumatra before, eventually, capturing it. My hope is that by the time it is captured most of the OIL centres will be destroyed and I can cause a serious OIL/Refinery shortage.

AE is a bit different here , its kind of important for the allies to husband there airforce however you can say train all the US pilots and let the britts and ducth do the work.

To achieve this I will need significant numbers of light combatants in the area ( DDs, MGBs etc... due to the small port sizes not being able to support CLs ) and that will necessitate having aircover. I'm hoping to mob him with numbers for a while, eventually lose the naval and air fight but have secured my ground positions by that time. At that point in time the ground units will fight it out while my air units rebuild for the defence of Burma/IndiaAlso even a losing fight in Sumatra creates opportunities for winning fights elsewhere....

Id prefer land , sea and the minimum air , mainly fighters and far away from his bases . What to do when KB shows up.

As to Changsha... Apart from allowing the Japanese lateral communications I just don't see how it is so important. It isn't a huge centre for creating supplies, it is an obvious target and the Japanese can bring lots of troops into it from multiple bases, base multiple bomber squadrons at these bases and blast the Chinese out. In addition it is relatively easily flanked from the south-west... I doubt anyone has successfully prevented a moderately capable Japanese player from taking Changsha if the Japanese player invests the units necessary.

The bluster and noise of defending it might look good and aggressive etc but I think it is also pointless---- unless one's opponent is extremely poor and in such a situation you'll win even bigger victories elsewhere.

If it is flanked from the SW then you need to abandon it but from most attacks it has a nice escape to the NW. The attacks from the SW are more difficult now compared to WITP , China seems to have a lot of troops SW of Changsha and Canton has a big garrison value.

Changsha opens the rail line to Vietnam with the new strategic movement in late 42 you can grab some divisions near South China or even singapore and launch an offensive in North China and then move them back , you can move supplies etc . Japan does not need any of the resources in China his options are

1) Ignore China / hold the line
2) expand the line a bit and Seize the rail line
3) Take all of China to relocate the forces.

[bklooste]

I agree with that but 3 points


1) The more you can get out of SIngapore the better.

2) .

There are inland aerial bases which should be proof against his naval bombardments.

Bombardments ( and air field attacks in general ) are pretty weak now.

3) Balikpan! Its no good holding him up in Palembang while he goes the Tar. & Balikpan route and invades Java from there with KB support. It could make life difficult for you in early 42 with his LBA in Malysia and attacking Java. Especially on T1 plaers like to send forces to Jolo and Tara. from Palau.?

[Nemo121]

1. naval bombardments being weak..> Sure but the presence of an inland base means that I have full security against them which is nice.

2. Balikpapan and Tarakan? I think you are missing the point of defending southern Sumatra.... Plus Balikpapan and Tarakan are utterly indefensible. Also I would take exception to your statement that there's no point holding up in Palembang while he goes the Tarakan/Balikpapan route and invades Java via southern Borneo.

As a matter of fact that is precisely the route I expect he'll take and I expect he'll be able to invade java quite easily via that route without the need for KB as I won't be trying to defend that excessively long coastline with grossly insufficient troops. Java is a deathtrap. Sumatra isn't much better but at least the southern part is a bit more defensible.


P.s. Waiting on the turn from 1EyedJacks. I think I might be receiving it sometime today based on his last SITREP.