escorting APs with high cruise speed

[jb123]

How do you guys escort some of the xAPs (QE comes to mind) with high cruising speeds that are usually 5-10 knots faster than dd and CL cruising speeds? I don't want to put the TF on full speed. I guess I could form a surface combat TF to follow the faster ship but I find that escorting valuable things is best done with a combination of escorts in the valuable TF and separate TFs following.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: jb123

How do you guys escort some of the xAPs (QE comes to mind) with high cruising speeds that are usually 5-10 knots faster than dd and CL cruising speeds? I don't want to put the TF on full speed. I guess I could form a surface combat TF to follow the faster ship but I find that escorting valuable things is best done with a combination of escorts in the valuable TF and separate TFs following.

Historically these ships made their runs unescorted. No way a short legged DD could keep up with them and they were considered fast enough that subs had very little chance of intercepting them. I use them the same way in game. However, I don't use them in high risk areas either. They cost a lot of VP if you lose one. Aden to Karachi is very safe and it is useful to get troops to India fast. Biggest problem for me is that they do not have enough cargo capacity vs troop capacity. They should be able to hold a whole infantry regiment but it does not work that way in game because 2/3rd of an infantry regiment is cargo. For this reason, I find the big liners less useful.

[khyberbill]

I withdraw the QE as soon as possible. I just dont want to have to track the withdrawal of this ship.

[castor troy]

the high speed doesn´t help them at all in AE, at least this is my experience... they are hit as easy as 12 knot AKs and I don´t know if speed is taken into account at all for sub attacks and if so, then probably not really as it should. [&:] Escorting those ships more or less makes them normal APs with a little more capacity.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: jb123

How do you guys escort some of the xAPs (QE comes to mind) with high cruising speeds that are usually 5-10 knots faster than dd and CL cruising speeds? I don't want to put the TF on full speed. I guess I could form a surface combat TF to follow the faster ship but I find that escorting valuable things is best done with a combination of escorts in the valuable TF and separate TFs following.

HISTORY

The Queens did not use escorts. They cruised at 29-30 knots, which was sufficiently fast that a sub had a near-nil chance of developing a target solution in the time between first detection and engagement. (When I was doing the system modelling for A/N BSY-2, I had to model this process. There are a number of books in the open literature that address the issues of interest.) Note that the American CVTFs moved at about that speed when strategically deploying, but with cruisers (but not destroyers, however) in attendance to protect against SAGs. They were also pretty much invulnerable to submarine attack.

I don't know what the game does. Most TFs and convoys moved at speeds that subs could handle. This is the sort of issue that you need a background in OR and some submarine experience to get right.

[bsq]

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: jb123

How do you guys escort some of the xAPs (QE comes to mind) with high cruising speeds that are usually 5-10 knots faster than dd and CL cruising speeds? I don't want to put the TF on full speed. I guess I could form a surface combat TF to follow the faster ship but I find that escorting valuable things is best done with a combination of escorts in the valuable TF and separate TFs following.

HISTORY

The Queens did not use escorts. They cruised at 29-30 knots, which was sufficiently fast that a sub had a near-nil chance of developing a target solution in the time between first detection and engagement. (When I was doing the system modelling for A/N BSY-2, I had to model this process. There are a number of books in the open literature that address the issues of interest.) Note that the American CVTFs moved at about that speed when strategically deploying, but with cruisers (but not destroyers, however) in attendance to protect against SAGs. They were also pretty much invulnerable to submarine attack.

I don't know what the game does. Most TFs and convoys moved at speeds that subs could handle. This is the sort of issue that you need a background in OR and some submarine experience to get right.

It's known as 'limiting lines of approach'. Basically with the speed of the Queens, the speed of the submarines, the range and speed of the torpedoes they would have been impossible to hit. (Perhaps late war Kaitens in ambush may have been able to get them). Use them unescorted, they move 16 - 18 hexes a day and QE can carry at least 2 LCU's (one at a time) from the West Coast to Aus before she has to be withdrawn.

BTW what annoys me more about these ships is the amount of system damage they take when cruising or at mission speed - come on whoever wrote the parameters for these two ships, they did not need a 6 week yard service between troop carrying runs, yet that's what the game does to them.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: bsq

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: jb123

How do you guys escort some of the xAPs (QE comes to mind) with high cruising speeds that are usually 5-10 knots faster than dd and CL cruising speeds? I don't want to put the TF on full speed. I guess I could form a surface combat TF to follow the faster ship but I find that escorting valuable things is best done with a combination of escorts in the valuable TF and separate TFs following.

HISTORY

The Queens did not use escorts. They cruised at 29-30 knots, which was sufficiently fast that a sub had a near-nil chance of developing a target solution in the time between first detection and engagement. (When I was doing the system modelling for A/N BSY-2, I had to model this process. There are a number of books in the open literature that address the issues of interest.) Note that the American CVTFs moved at about that speed when strategically deploying, but with cruisers (but not destroyers, however) in attendance to protect against SAGs. They were also pretty much invulnerable to submarine attack.

I don't know what the game does. Most TFs and convoys moved at speeds that subs could handle. This is the sort of issue that you need a background in OR and some submarine experience to get right.

It's known as 'limiting lines of approach'. Basically with the speed of the Queens, the speed of the submarines, the range and speed of the torpedoes they would have been impossible to hit. (Perhaps late war Kaitens in ambush may have been able to get them). Use them unescorted, they move 16 - 18 hexes a day and QE can carry at least 2 LCU's (one at a time) from the West Coast to Aus before she has to be withdrawn.

BTW what annoys me more about these ships is the amount of system damage they take when cruising or at mission speed - come on whoever wrote the parameters for these two ships, they did not need a 6 week yard service between troop carrying runs, yet that's what the game does to them.

are you saying that you can carry TWO different LCUs on one ship? [&:]

sys damage is no problem in AE, it´s repaired in shipyards in no time...

just look at subs, even if they are severly damaged, it only takes a couple of days and they are out on patrol again, by far too fast IMO.

[bsq]

2 LCU's ONE AT A TIME as I stated in the original reply.

They take weeks to repair - QE has 21 sys 0 flot and 1 Eng and it was estimating 41 days in San Fransisco for repairs - so sorry sys damage is an issue on an 80k GRT ship. (this was after 1 run to West coast followed by 1 return run to Sydney and back.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: bsq

2 LCU's ONE AT A TIME as I stated in the original reply.

They take weeks to repair - QE has 21 sys 0 flot and 1 Eng and it was estimating 41 days in San Fransisco for repairs - so sorry sys damage is an issue on an 80k GRT ship. (this was after 1 run to West coast followed by 1 return run to Sydney and back.

oh sorry, misread your post.

[bsq]

Thats OK, just didn't want anyone else seeing that way and trying it (doomed to failure of course [;)])

[RDonlon]

ORIGINAL: herwin
HISTORY

The Queens did not use escorts. They cruised at 29-30 knots, which was sufficiently fast that a sub had a near-nil chance of developing a target solution in the time between first detection and engagement. (When I was doing the system modelling for A/N BSY-2, I had to model this process. There are a number of books in the open literature that address the issues of interest.) Note that the American CVTFs moved at about that speed when strategically deploying, but with cruisers (but not destroyers, however) in attendance to protect against SAGs. They were also pretty much invulnerable to submarine attack.

I don't know what the game does. Most TFs and convoys moved at speeds that subs could handle. This is the sort of issue that you need a background in OR and some submarine experience to get right.

This is one of the most pretentious posts I have seen in many years. I assume you are not a developer because if you were you would have put that in your curious ciriculum vitae. Since you are not, I wonder what in the world you are talking about. Just who do you think you are? And don't play stupid games please. I work for State at sec level 5.

[Nomad]

ORIGINAL: RDonlon

ORIGINAL: herwin
HISTORY

The Queens did not use escorts. They cruised at 29-30 knots, which was sufficiently fast that a sub had a near-nil chance of developing a target solution in the time between first detection and engagement. (When I was doing the system modelling for A/N BSY-2, I had to model this process. There are a number of books in the open literature that address the issues of interest.) Note that the American CVTFs moved at about that speed when strategically deploying, but with cruisers (but not destroyers, however) in attendance to protect against SAGs. They were also pretty much invulnerable to submarine attack.

I don't know what the game does. Most TFs and convoys moved at speeds that subs could handle. This is the sort of issue that you need a background in OR and some submarine experience to get right.

This is one of the most pretentious posts I have seen in many years. I assume you are not a developer because if you were you would have put that in your curious ciriculum vitae. Since you are not, I wonder what in the world you are talking about. Just who do you think you are? And don't play stupid games please. I work for State at sec level 5.

?????????????? [&:]

[Central Blue]

ORIGINAL: jb123

How do you guys escort some of the xAPs (QE comes to mind) with high cruising speeds that are usually 5-10 knots faster than dd and CL cruising speeds? I don't want to put the TF on full speed. I guess I could form a surface combat TF to follow the faster ship but I find that escorting valuable things is best done with a combination of escorts in the valuable TF and separate TFs following.

I run them without escort if they cruise faster than DD's. I sail them separately from each other, no convoys.

I run the QE at cruise speed only now, and I am not having problems with the sys damage reported by others. It might be the jump to warp speed that is causing the problems. [:)]

I have never had sys problems with the other passenger liners on mission speed.

A lot of hardware gets left behind, but it seems to mostly be in the nature of motorized tail, the bulk of the tooth gets where you want it in a hurry, and you can rebuild the unit if fate takes an ugly turn. I like to follow on with the Euro L Class, which can be escorted at DD cruising speed, carry a lot of cargo, and some fuel as well.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: RDonlon

ORIGINAL: herwin
HISTORY

The Queens did not use escorts. They cruised at 29-30 knots, which was sufficiently fast that a sub had a near-nil chance of developing a target solution in the time between first detection and engagement. (When I was doing the system modelling for A/N BSY-2, I had to model this process. There are a number of books in the open literature that address the issues of interest.) Note that the American CVTFs moved at about that speed when strategically deploying, but with cruisers (but not destroyers, however) in attendance to protect against SAGs. They were also pretty much invulnerable to submarine attack.

I don't know what the game does. Most TFs and convoys moved at speeds that subs could handle. This is the sort of issue that you need a background in OR and some submarine experience to get right.

This is one of the most pretentious posts I have seen in many years. I assume you are not a developer because if you were you would have put that in your curious ciriculum vitae. Since you are not, I wonder what in the world you are talking about. Just who do you think you are? And don't play stupid games please. I work for State at sec level 5.

now this is a funny second post... [>:]

[frank1970]

ORIGINAL: RDonlon

ORIGINAL: herwin
HISTORY

The Queens did not use escorts. They cruised at 29-30 knots, which was sufficiently fast that a sub had a near-nil chance of developing a target solution in the time between first detection and engagement. (When I was doing the system modelling for A/N BSY-2, I had to model this process. There are a number of books in the open literature that address the issues of interest.) Note that the American CVTFs moved at about that speed when strategically deploying, but with cruisers (but not destroyers, however) in attendance to protect against SAGs. They were also pretty much invulnerable to submarine attack.

I don't know what the game does. Most TFs and convoys moved at speeds that subs could handle. This is the sort of issue that you need a background in OR and some submarine experience to get right.

This is one of the most pretentious posts I have seen in many years. I assume you are not a developer because if you were you would have put that in your curious ciriculum vitae. Since you are not, I wonder what in the world you are talking about. Just who do you think you are? And don't play stupid games please. I work for State at sec level 5.

aha, and that means what exactly????? That herwin isn´t right? That there aren´t books about the large liners? That there aren´t books about subwarfare?

Now, would you please be so kins as to elaborate! Else shut up and let people give interesting information.

[wild_Willie2]

ORIGINAL: RDonlon

ORIGINAL: herwin
HISTORY

The Queens did not use escorts. They cruised at 29-30 knots, which was sufficiently fast that a sub had a near-nil chance of developing a target solution in the time between first detection and engagement. (When I was doing the system modelling for A/N BSY-2, I had to model this process. There are a number of books in the open literature that address the issues of interest.) Note that the American CVTFs moved at about that speed when strategically deploying, but with cruisers (but not destroyers, however) in attendance to protect against SAGs. They were also pretty much invulnerable to submarine attack.

I don't know what the game does. Most TFs and convoys moved at speeds that subs could handle. This is the sort of issue that you need a background in OR and some submarine experience to get right.

This is one of the most pretentious posts I have seen in many years. I assume you are not a developer because if you were you would have put that in your curious ciriculum vitae. Since you are not, I wonder what in the world you are talking about. Just who do you think you are? And don't play stupid games please. I work for State at sec level 5.

Hi RDonlon.

Like any other forum, this forum has a larger group of users ranging from chronic NAY sayers, to active/retired navy men, to people with PhD's that like to argue their posts with a lot of math/technical content. As there is a "relative" form of free speech on this forum you will have to deal with each poster individually, whether you like their style of posting or not.

For people that you do not like, there is a small green button next to the "buddy" button that will let you block posts from those posters, but be warned, this also works for every other poster that thinks that your posts are not wanted..

Gr.

William.

[frank1970]

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

ORIGINAL: RDonlon

ORIGINAL: herwin
HISTORY

The Queens did not use escorts. They cruised at 29-30 knots, which was sufficiently fast that a sub had a near-nil chance of developing a target solution in the time between first detection and engagement. (When I was doing the system modelling for A/N BSY-2, I had to model this process. There are a number of books in the open literature that address the issues of interest.) Note that the American CVTFs moved at about that speed when strategically deploying, but with cruisers (but not destroyers, however) in attendance to protect against SAGs. They were also pretty much invulnerable to submarine attack.

I don't know what the game does. Most TFs and convoys moved at speeds that subs could handle. This is the sort of issue that you need a background in OR and some submarine experience to get right.

This is one of the most pretentious posts I have seen in many years. I assume you are not a developer because if you were you would have put that in your curious ciriculum vitae. Since you are not, I wonder what in the world you are talking about. Just who do you think you are? And don't play stupid games please. I work for State at sec level 5.

Hi RDonlon.

Like any other forum, this forum has a larger group of users ranging from chronic NAY sayers, to active/retired navy men, to people with PhD's that like to argue their posts with a lot of math/technical content. As there is a "relative" form of free speech on this forum you will have to deal with each poster individually, whether you like their style of posting or not.

For people that you do not like, there is a small green button next to the "buddy" button that will let you block posts from those posters, but be warned, this also works for every other poster that thinks that your posts are not wanted..

Gr.

William.

please, donßt scare him, he is sec level 5 and works for the state! [:D]

[bsq]

ORIGINAL: Frank

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

ORIGINAL: RDonlon



This is one of the most pretentious posts I have seen in many years. I assume you are not a developer because if you were you would have put that in your curious ciriculum vitae. Since you are not, I wonder what in the world you are talking about. Just who do you think you are? And don't play stupid games please. I work for State at sec level 5.

Hi RDonlon.

Like any other forum, this forum has a larger group of users ranging from chronic NAY sayers, to active/retired navy men, to people with PhD's that like to argue their posts with a lot of math/technical content. As there is a "relative" form of free speech on this forum you will have to deal with each poster individually, whether you like their style of posting or not.

For people that you do not like, there is a small green button next to the "buddy" button that will let you block posts from those posters, but be warned, this also works for every other poster that thinks that your posts are not wanted..

Gr.

William.

please, donßt scare him, he is sec level 5 and works for the state! [:D]

No he said 'State' - so I guess he means the US State Department - so for a (potential) diplomat his first two posts aren't very diplomatic...[:D]

[frank1970]

maybe he will be better at level 6! [;)]

[Whisper]

Oh golly boys and girls. You have some worthless little hi falutin ten sylable wannabe on one end, and some dude with more ass then sense on the other. Neither one of these people are worth a purple fart in a pink bathtub.

Just go on.