The ultimate bug in Harpoon - turning

[Scaffold]

Greetings!
I haven't played Harpoon for few years. Having acquired ANW recently, I was suprised that the ultimate bug in the game was allowed to stand. [X(] I'm speaking about infinite turning rate - when units can turn at any angle immediately. You think it's ok to leave it like that? My opinion is that without fixing that bug any claims for realism are unfounded.

[hermanhum]

Welcome (back) to the game, shipmate.  [8D]

I must disagree about this deficiency as a 'bug'.  Instead I would classify this as a "game limitation" because it is the way the game has always handled movement.  While a physics package to handle might be nice to have, it has never been promised and was never part of Harpoon.  Thus, it cannot legitimately be called a bug, IMO.  Things like aircraft logistics and underway replenishment [UnRep] have been promised features since the original Harpoon II was released in 1994.  I would claim these as definite bugs because they still do not work in v3.9.4 ANW.

If you really want to know about bugs, check out the most comprehensive list of problems:

AGSI's List of * Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues

[Scaffold]

I started with reading through that list. And then witnessed some of the missile's erratic behaviour myself. [:)]

As for the topic question, I'd have described that as a biggest game oddity. In my eyes it is a bug, because I think it can influence the outcome of some engagements like torpedo attacks, where turning rate is something that matters.

My opinion, of course. I noticed that Matrix guys have been rather sensitive towards criticism. [:D]

[hermanhum]

ORIGINAL: Scaffold

I started with reading through that list. And then witnessed some of the missile's erratic behaviour myself. [:)]

Gosh, you mean that stuff from AGSI's List of * Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues actually happens to you, too?! According to AGSI, the problems posted are simply fiction since they claim that they cannot be replicated. [;)]

To be fair, you are talking about AGSI (the game developers) and not Matrix (the publishers/distributors). Matrix has been more than fair towards allowing legitimate criticism of this bug-infested game. AGSI are the ones who hide behind secret fora, password-protected bug lists, and bans for any criticism on their corporate site.

[rsharp@advancedgamin]

Hey folks,

I think the instant bearing change is a big deal but not an ultimate bug because of the scale of Harpoon. There are simply other issues that demand immediate attention before we would add, what I consider, this new feature. I do have this and acceleration in the back of my mind and To-Do lists.

As to the topic of how AGSI and Matrix handle criticism, I'll point to the following link as an example of our attitude and progress.

http://hud3.harpoon5.com/mantis-1.1.1/my_view_page.php

This site documents Herman's collected list of bugs and how they have been handled by AGSI. You may log in anonymously and switch to 'The List' project in the top right drop down menu. You can view the individual issues as well as the overview in the Summary feature.

Scaffold?
What erratic missile behavior are you noticing?

Thanks,

[hermanhum]

ORIGINAL: rsharp@advancedgamin

As to the topic of how AGSI and Matrix handle criticism, I'll point to the following link as an example of our attitude and progress.

http://hud3.harpoon5.com/mantis-1.1.1/my_view_page.php

More to the point, the sites that should be examined are:

http://www.harpoon5.com/beta/
http://www.computerharpoon.com/mantis/c ... g_page.php
http://forum.computerharpoon.com/viewforum.php?f=11

Note that none of these sites are controlled by Matrix and they are all password-protected. They are all places where AGSI seeks to hide their problems. The only reason the OTHER Mantis site even exists is because AGSI simply could not hide their problems any longer since they were already publicly posted on

AGSI's List of * Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues

[Scaffold]

Gosh, you mean that stuff from AGSI's List of * Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues actually happens to you, too?! According to AGSI, the problems posted are simply fiction since they claim that they cannot be replicated. [;)]

I do mean that! Missiles behave in an idiotic way and just disappear at the target, without being shot down or hitting it.

[Scaffold]

Scaffold?
What erratic missile behavior are you noticing?
Thanks,

In the Sanctions scenario I tried to hit Korean missile boat with ship-borne Harpoons and helo-borne Pinguins. Not far from target the Harpoons just changed their course and disappeared. Then I launched two Pinguins aimed at two different boats, one of missiled turned to the same target as the other, and finally they just disappeared at the boat - neither being shot down, nor hitting. That issue falls pretty well under Weapons that hit in 3.9.3 will never hit target in 3.9.4 report in the bug list. That was enough for me, I switched back to my good old 3.6.3.

If you want my personal opinion...
First, remember the fate of Great Naval Battles series - a brilliant game, but driven to the grave and oblivion by the bugs!
Second, be very afraid of GCB2 and some newer games currently under develompent! Harpoon looks terribly dated compared to the newer developments. I personally not speaking about adding 3D models - I do not need them. But we all need a modern GUI and overall looks.

[hermanhum]

ORIGINAL: Scaffold

In the Sanctions scenario I tried to hit Korean missile boat with ship-borne Harpoons and helo-borne Pinguins. Not far from target the Harpoons just changed their course and disappeared. Then I launched two Pinguins aimed at two different boats, one of missiled turned to the same target as the other, and finally they just disappeared at the boat - neither being shot down, nor hitting. That issue falls pretty well under Weapons that hit in 3.9.3 will never hit target in 3.9.4 report in the bug list. That was enough for me, I switched back to my good old 3.6.3.

Please be more specific about the scenario and database used. Was it for the PlayersDB, ANW, OriginalDB, another? It makes a big difference as each DB sets different weapon specifications and some are extremely buggy. If you have a specific situation or scenario, a saved game can help a great deal. You can zip up the *.SAV file and attached it to a message in this sub-forum.

The problem you mention may or may not be the same as the one reported in:

Weapons that hit in 3.9.3 will never hit target in 3.9.4

There could be a number of possible explanations. For example, the missiles could have arrived at the target and been either shot down by point defense guns/missiles, seduced by decoys, or just plain missed. There is insufficient detail in your report. In general, the PlayersDB has the least number of problems. Just install it and switch over with the Database selection function in the Configuration launcher.

Harpoon ANW users can get the
Complete Harpoon ANW Library

If you decide to stick with your H3.6.3 version, you can also use the PlayersDB with it:

Harpoon3.6.3 users can get the
Complete Harpoon 3.6.3 Library

ORIGINAL: Scaffold

Harpoon looks terribly dated compared to the newer developments. I personally not speaking about adding 3D models - I do not need them. But we all need a modern GUI and overall looks.

A new GUI would be great, but a functional ANW would be the first step, IMO. Currently, ANW does not even run as dependably as H2 or H3.

[Scaffold]

I used the what in Harpoon 3 Launcher is called Harpoon 3 Standard Database.
You think I must try HUD? I have the option of HUD3 1.0.0, and I guess it's not the latest.

[Scaffold]

For example, the missiles could have arrived at the target and been either shot down by point defense guns/missiles, seduced by decoys, or just plain missed.

I'm afraid that missile boat was just too crappy to have that kind of toys onboard. Four missiles in a row cannot miss as well.

[hermanhum]

ORIGINAL: Scaffold

I used the what in Harpoon 3 Launcher is called Harpoon 3 Standard Database.
You think I must try HUD? I have the option of HUD3 1.0.0, and I guess it's not the latest.

I would avoid any of the databases and scenarios distributed by AGSI. Please try the scenario with the PlayersDB installed. If you can, save the game just before the missiles hit and post the file up here so that everyone can take a look at it.

A screen shot would help, too. (Alt+F1)

[Scaffold]

Will the file you linked for me above install PlayersDB? I'll give it a try.

[hermanhum]

Yes.

Just install it the same way you installed all the other patches from Matrix:

Complete Harpoon ANW Library

[Scaffold]

It adds scenarios. Where to find the list of them with descriptions?

[hermanhum]

I do not understand the question. Once you install the Complete Harpoon ANW Library, all the scenarios are arranged by Battleset. They each have a quick description that appears when you select the scenario (and before you hit the Load button). If you want a longer description, you can check out more complete descriptions at:

http://www.harplonkhq.com/Harpoon/ANWscenlist.htm

Be sure that you switch over to the PlayersDB selection properly.

[Scaffold]

Seems to be working. I played one of my favourite scenarios 'Car carrier convoys' (Russian side of course [:'(]), and didn't find any oddities.

[hermanhum]

You are in quite a fortuitous situation.  You own both H3.6.3 and ANW.  You can always try the same PlayersDB scenario with the previous H3 version and compare it to the results you get with the ANW version.  Most of the H3 PlayersDB scenarios are the same ones available for ANW.  In many cases, you will find that the H3 AI is much more aggressive and challenging.

I'm glad that you have something that seems to work according to your tastes.  As previously stated, the PlayersDB scenarios will give you the least number of problems.

[Scaffold]

Yes, Kh-22 Kitchens seem to be very consistent! [:D]

[Scaffold]

I only have one question at the moment - my diesel-electric sub does not charge batteries even when surfaced? What is wrong?