More Jap economy woes (NO CANOEREBEL)!!

[Miller]

Hi all, I was struggling badly with the economy a while back but got some excellent advice off Damian on the steps needed to get it back on track. However, I have encountered several new problems that I would like some general advice on.


OK, ignore the the above, it is a smoke screen for my real question.

Currently in my PBEM it is July 43. I'm certain my opponent Dan is going to push North from Darwin into the DEI and/or Celebes. He has been building up several Islands to the east of Timor. Recon of Darwin shows loads of transports in the Harbour and 100! ground units at the location.

I currently have carrier superiortity in numbers, but I know he is going to receive 3 or 4 Essex CVs this month, so that will soon vanish.

What I was thinking of doing was a massive port strike on Darwin with every available CV, CVL and CVE I have, with the objective of sinking a large number of transports there, thus delaying his invasions and giving me extra time to build up my defences in the area.

I would have 1000 a/c on my flight decks, 450 fighters and 550 strike a/c. Recon shows he has about 200 fighters at Darwin, so I am confident all of the strike a/c would get through with a 300 Zero escort. However, the one sticking point is the number of ground units he has in the hex. Do they all contribute to the flak defence? If so any attack would be suicide...........

Looking for advice and opinions on this idea..........

[Athius]

Gehe, I like your plan and I like your smokescreen, its evil.

I think the ground units contribute to the flak, as regular AA units are essentialy ground units with a lot of AAA in their TOE.




As for the economy: I suggest moving all the oil back to Tokyo.

[Chickenboy]

Hi Miller,

I'm a regular reader and contributor to Canoerebel's AAR, so my answer to your question will be a bit perfunctory and picayune in order to avoid any preknowledge of your opponent's situation creeping into my advice.

It is my understanding that units that are on "Combat" setting (versus 'rest' or 'move') with AAA capabilities will contribute said AAA abilities to overall air defense of the hex in which they reside.

Good luck!

[CapAndGown]

My experience as an IJN player is that Flak is murderous. Do not do it with Vals as they dive down to 2000-3000 feet and get shot at twice. If you go for it, use Kates that are set to using bombs and fly them up high, like 15000 feet.

[Athius]

Or replace the pilots and do it with Vals anyway, you can rebuild the planes and the sheer mass of planes will insure some hits.

[String]

Most, if not all of allied light AA has a ceiling below 10k feet, so as long as you keep your bombers above 10k you'll be fine. Do you have any LB bases nearby? If so you can also support the strike with Betties/Nells from high alt.

[Miller]

ORIGINAL: String

Most, if not all of allied light AA has a ceiling below 10k feet, so as long as you keep your bombers above 10k you'll be fine. Do you have any LB bases nearby? If so you can also support the strike with Betties/Nells from high alt.

Thanks excellent news!

Re the DBs taking heavy flak, I'm not too concerned about their losses, most of the pilots are rookies anyway, whereas my TB pilots are all veterans.

I could throw in about 150 Bettys as well, but I have visions of them going in before the main strike and being chewed up by the CAP........

[khyberbill]

I have no idea what is on the ground there but most probably only have light AA which would be most effective if you were doing a ground strike, however, you are attacking the port so ship AA and regular AA would probably be the most effective. Expect a lot of damage if not loss. You are going to lose the planes sometime, why not when you choose?

[ChickenOfTheSea]

Miller,
It is my understanding that Val's set to above 15000 ft will level bomb rather than dive bomb. They won't be as effective, but you won't get murdered by flak either. I haven;t actually tried this tactic, but I have seen it discussed on the board under altitude effects on dive bombers.

[topeverest]

Why not use massed long range land based bomber assets as a warm up and the carriers as a follow on the next turn if successful.

If you move in your carrier assets first against a large land base(s) obviously armed to the teeth, that seems pretty risky. If you have all those CV assets in your possession, that also is a hell of a force to rapidly counter his fleet once it goes into action. The port attack is risky unless you have really good intel that major combat ships are there. bagging a bunch of AP's will be a total waste.

let me know what you decide. I am most curious what will happen.

[Miller]

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Why not use massed long range land based bomber assets as a warm up and the carriers as a follow on the next turn if successful.

If you move in your carrier assets first against a large land base(s) obviously armed to the teeth, that seems pretty risky. If you have all those CV assets in your possession, that also is a hell of a force to rapidly counter his fleet once it goes into action. The port attack is risky unless you have really good intel that major combat ships are there. bagging a bunch of AP's will be a total waste.

let me know what you decide. I am most curious what will happen.

My CV strength is at its peak now, his is growing. I doubt he will invade any major base in the area until he recieves his new Essex's to help cover, and whilst he is waiting the numerous small Islands he is building up north of Darwin will grow and all be capable of holding hundreds of LBA between them.

I know the Allies get a million transports, however I am hoping to hit the specialist APAs and I think there will be lots of CA/CLs in port as well, as he is using them on fast transport missions to get troops and supply to the bases he is building to the north.

I am going to go with the operation, I will set my DBs to 15000ft and the TBs to 12000ft, accuracy will suffer but hopefully it will negate most of the flak potential, and 300 high exp Zeros as escort should keep his CAP away. With us playing two day turns as well hopefully the second day strike will finish off a lot of cripples with him not having any chance to beef up the CAP after day one.

I will post again on this thread just before I send him the turn, probably late this week.

[topeverest]

I never play 2 day turns so I really dont know how that dynamic plays. Good luck. I think your plan has the elements of a winning strike plan - massive use of coordinated assets against a large and presumably unready enemy, sudden onset, and quick retreat / reforcing for future opportunities. Let me suggest over stocking some pilots and planes in the attack units prior to execution. Also, if you launch close to a friendly base, you can use that CAP to help your convoys.

[Q-Ball]

I read Dan's AAR, so can't really comment, other than to please post your side of the report after it's done. Should be interesting.

[Barb]

You should either go under 10k or over 20k. Kates will glide bomb from those altitudes and Vals will dive bomb from 10-14k and glide bomb from 15-19k. As the allied 37 and 40mm AA guns have ceiling up to 9800, you should certainly go over 20k.

But with the large fleet there and chance to deal serious blow to his lift capacity I would go for maximum damage adding up whatever plane I could get my hands on.

About land AA units: Only AA-designated weapons fire higher than 2000 ft.

[USSAmerica]

Miller, I am in favor of trying to do some damage. What good are all your powerful CV's if you keep them safe until they are no longer even a speed bump for your opponent's growing CV strength? I am eager to see your results. Good luck! [:)]

[Nomad]

This is from the notes with Patch 2:

62. Gameplay Change: Placed limits on glide bombing altitudes. A TD/DB/FB/F group must be at 10-20K altitude to perform glide bombing, otherwise it is a normal level bombing attack. Groups were at maximum altitude and conducting glide bombs attack, sometimes without engaging CAP or flak.

note that TD was supposed to be TB. So, you must set your DB to either 9,000 feet or 21,000 feet to keep them from doing a dive bomb( or glide bomb ) style attack.

[Mynok]

If your Vals are rookies, they aren't going to hit anything anyway. So set your Kates right and go for it.

[JeffroK]

Similar comment to Chickenman & QBall,

What are you likely to run into in the way of AAA?

Brit 3.7", US 90mm & 75mm, maybe some 3" if replacements have been low.
40mm, 20mm & 50cal LAA

You say 100 Allied Units.

Go ahead, I'd love to see the results

[String]

What do you think you're options are with naval bombardment? How large is the port there anyway atm?

Edit: If your betties come in from far away then they should probably come last.

[xj900uk]

I take it substitute 'glide bomb' for 'dive bomb'?  Therefore all DB's must be 10k-20k feet in order to dive bomb?
 
Re hitting Darwin, good idea but don't use up your decent carrier-trained pilots as they are priceless to the IJN and should be retained for hitting his carriers.  Better to hit with LBA's and for a decent twist go in and hit hard by night first then for an added measure do an unexpected bombardment force (send in DD's first to try and get mines with a BB/CA force hot on their heels)