The Shipwreck of Our Hopes: Japanese Side

[John 3rd]

This is a 2x2 scenario playing Juan's CV-Enhansed Mod that is due to be released within the next 10-14 days.

The Japanese side is played by a pair of veterans: John (I've NEVER seen a target I CANNOT invade!) and Michael (I understand the game and it is ALL about LOGISTICS)

VERSUS

Allied Players: Miller (a wily veteran to be watched) and Fishbed (a rookie who is ready to duke it out).

Since the Mod isn't out yet, Michael and I want to treat this AAR as a learning forum for Japanese players. We will formulate strategy, discuss tactics, and truly work the economic side of the Japanese within AE.

BANZAI!

EDIT: No FISHES or MILLERS Allowed! [:D]

[Mike Solli]

This should be fun. Are your opponents doing an AAR as well?

[John 3rd]

Hi Mike. 
 
It is our hope that they do.  Miller enjoys doing AARs so I ASSUME he will do that.  Fishbed appears to be very enthusiastic so he'll certainly contribute.
 
Michael and I only started talking initial strategy this morning.  We talk on the phone nearly every day so this should be a lot of fun for both of us.
 
Initial thinking is for me to run around in my favorite area--South, SE, and Central Pacific while Michael works North Pacific, CBI, and economy.
 
Do not think we will be limited by these 'spheres.'  We are a team in the truest sense of the word so everything will be discussed, debated, and agreed upon as we go.  We intend to hold these discussions on the AAR so people can learn, contribute, and fully vest themselves in our GLORY! 
 

[John 3rd]

[font="times new roman"]I sent this to Michael earlier today:[/font][/b]
[font="times new roman"][/font][/b] 
[font="times new roman"]Shipwreck of Our Hopes[/font][/b]
[font="times new roman"]Proposed:  South Pacific Strategy[/font][/b]

Two pincers will advance in differing directions:

Eastern—Advancing from the Marshalls, this attack will be carried out with small Japanese units aided by the South Seas Force (144th Reg).  Objectives:  Baker, Canton, and Pago Pago area.

Southern---Staging out of Truk, this Offensive will carry the heavy weight of the main punch.  Significantly augmented by transferred troops and units, the Japanese will immediately move south and capture the following short, medium, and long-term targets:  Rabaul, Lae, Port Moresby, and NE Australia.

Forces needing to be moved by Juan so this can be done:

[font="times new roman"]Truk[/font][/b]
[font="times new roman"]Osaka              4th Inf Div[/font]
Maizuru           8th Base Force
[font="times new roman"]Hiroshima        14th Shipping Engineer Regiment[/font]
[font="times new roman"]                        Combined Fleet[/font]
[font="times new roman"]                        1st Fleet[/font]
[font="times new roman"]Kagoshima      16th AA Regiment[/font]
[font="times new roman"]                        44th Fld AA Bn[/font]
Takao              11th Air Fleet
[font="times new roman"]                        5th Air Division[/font]
[font="times new roman"]                        ALL Combined Fleet SNLF and Construction Bn[/font]

[font="times new roman"]NEED[/i]:  Army HQ, 2-3 Artillery Units, an Independent Brigade, and 2-3 small BF for Air Fields[/font]

Ships:  enough lift for roughly 30,000 men, BB Mutsu and Nagato, 2 CVL, CL Oi and Kitakami, and 10 DD.

[font="times new roman"]Kwajalein[/b][/b][/font]
Takao              21st Air Flotilla

[font="times new roman"]NEED[/i]:  3-4 SNLF and 2-3 small BF[/font]

Ships:  enough lift for 10,000 men


We need to find the units to finish the new deployment requirements.

EDIT: We have decided that India is not possible, New Zealand is TOO far way, so Australia falls into the realm of the possible. The intention is to not capture the continent. We want to take the NW--Darwin specifically--and make the Allies THINK we are going after Aussieland. That should divert them while we work elsewhere.

This thinking is only in the germination stage. We have only begun talking about possibilities...

[ny59giants]

Just sent this to John (not knowing this was done as I had pulled up BB Enhanced mod to do a look see).

I've taken a step back on the amount of troops that you want moved. See list.

I have pulled back to Truk. Kwajalein has the capacity of only 6,000 troops. However, the 2 para SNLFs go to the Marshalls to fit with Mavis-L.

Australia is fine in concept, but you have to add in logistics. Which means protection of follow up TF. We have too many needs and not enough Zeros (trust me on this one).

I said 'minor' changes, not a Lunacy game. [:D]

Here is my "modified' list for pre-turn 1 changes.

Us vs. Them
Proposed: South Pacific Strategy

Two pincers will advance in differing directions:

Eastern—Advancing from the Marshalls, this attack will be carried out with small Japanese units aided by the South Seas Force (144th Reg). Objectives: Baker, Canton, and Pago Pago area.

Southern---Staging out of Truk, this Offensive will carry the heavy weight of the main punch. Significantly augmented by transferred troops and units, the Japanese will immediately move south and capture the following short, medium, and long-term targets: Rabaul, Lae, Port Moresby, and NE Australia.

Forces needing to be moved by Juan so this can be done:

Truk
Osaka 4th Inf Div
Maizuru 8th Base Force
Hiroshima 14th Shipping Engineer Regiment
Combined Fleet
Kagoshima 16th AA Regiment
44th Fld AA Bn
Takao 21st Air HQ (1 Nell Daitai assigned at start).
2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th Nav Construction Bn
1st & 2nd BF
Samah Yokosuka 4th SNLF
Sasebo 3rd & 8th SNLF

Ships: enough lift for roughly 40,000 men, BB Mutsu and Nagato, 2 CVL, CL Oi and Kitakami, and 10 DD.

Marshalls
Maloelap 1st & 3rd Yokosuka SNLF (para)

Babeldoab
TF 89 which includes Kure 1st SNLF prepped for Ambon
Kure 2nd SNLF – Ambono prepped
TF 120 with 15 Nav Gds 1st turn bonus move towards Babeldoab
TF 121 with 16 Nav Gds 1st turn bonus move towards Babeldoab
I/81 & III/81 Nav Gd moved to Babeldoab
4 JAAF BF
10k cargo capacity to lift troops plus PBs

1) The Gds Mixed Bde can be bought out in about 4 days (if we don't spend any PPs in the first few days).
2) The 5th BF at Saipan has 72 Aviation support (vs normal 24). She can head south.
3) 2nd Air HQ in Manchuria goes after Gds Mixed Bde for PP usage.
4) I would expect 2 to 3 CVs in the South Pacific (one starts out near Suva, two around Pearl, two on west coast). Not too many unescorted transport TFs allowed. [:-]

[Cribtop]

This ought to be good. Tuning in to soak up learning. [8D]

[John 3rd]

I was willing to attempt this Mod because it should be somewhat different without KNOWING where everything is at the start.  Additionally, the economy should not be TOO different from Stock so I hope our economic work will be of complete use to anyone wanting to play the 'Enlightened' Side! 
 
Should note that if Juan wants to jump into this discussion and provide his own feedback and thoughts, he is more then welcome.
 
Many of our objectives shall be economic where we are looking for resources, oil, and/or industry.  This parameter moves us in certain directions within Australia, the DEI is a given, and more importantly Northern China.  Michael has China so I figure he'll explain intentions there.
 
As for Turn 1 these are the initial plans:
1.  Part of KB hits Pearl Harbor
2.  Remaining part of KB hits Manila TO KILL SS
3.  No real invasions for my area of Operations (No Guam or Wake)
4.  Massive movement of shipping to Kwajalein and Truk to set-up opening offensives
 
Should note that the KB consists of EIGHT CVs in this Mod.  Am not sure how the Division of Port Attacks will work yet...
 

[thegreatwent]

I'm on board [:)]

[Grunt]

Would you consider striking deep first...Pago Pago, Suva, Luganville, Noumea...and then back fill later? Those locations will never get easier and taking them would sure throw a spanner in the Allied ability to reinforce the area and Oz.

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I was willing to attempt this Mod because it should be somewhat different without KNOWING where everything is at the start.  Additionally, the economy should not be TOO different from Stock so I hope our economic work will be of complete use to anyone wanting to play the 'Enlightened' Side! 

Should note that if Juan wants to jump into this discussion and provide his own feedback and thoughts, he is more then welcome.

Many of our objectives shall be economic where we are looking for resources, oil, and/or industry.  This parameter moves us in certain directions within Australia, the DEI is a given, and more importantly Northern China.  Michael has China so I figure he'll explain intentions there.

...

"Bitter experience in war has taught the maxim that the art of war is the art of the logistically feasible."
- ADM Hyman Rickover, USN

"Only a commander who understand logistics can push the military machine to the limits without risking total breakdown."
- Maj.Gen. Julian Thompson, Royal Marines


So you don't want to know the whereabouts of enemy units, does this mean your not going to look at the potential capture of Raw material / Industry in enemy occupied territory ? Or will the planning be around what you have at present ?

I only ask cause given the following quote, Michael might want his own personal bodyguard[8D]
"My logisticians are a humorless lot ... they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay."
- Alexander

[John 3rd]

Email between Michael and I this evening:



From: John Cochran[/align]Date: 02/11/10 15:32:09[/align]To: Michael Benoit[/align]Subject: Initial Troop Redeployment[/align][/align] [/align][font=calibri]OK.  I went through the bases fairly quickly and came up with some rough ideas for redeployment.  I'm featuring the main attacks to be carried by the following Inf Units:  Kwajalein's attacks will have the South Seas Force and SNLF while the Truk Forces will be 4th Inf Division and an Independent Brigade.[/font][/align][font=calibri][/font] [/align][font=calibri]The Truk Thrust will need another Brigade ASAP once the war begins and then we can figure how to reinforce it as things develop.[/font][/align][font=calibri][/font] [/align][font=calibri]What do you think of synchronicity in invading BOTH sides of Aussieland at about the same time?  We could set January 15th or February 1st as the initial D-Days.  Could seriously freak our opponents out!  Key point would be for the NE Invasion to be a diversion that could withdraw towards NW Australia or be lifted off and brought back to the South Pacific.[/font][/align][/align] [/align]Michael's Return Thoughts:[/align]I've taken a step back on the amount of troops that you want moved. See list. [/align] [/align]I have pulled back to Truk. Kwajalein has the capacity of only 6,000 troops.  However, the 2 para SNLFs go to the Marshalls to fit with Mavis-L. [/align] [/align]Australia is fine in concept, but you have to add in logistics. Which means protection of follow up TF. We have too many needs and not enough Zeros (trust me on this one). [/align] [/align]I said 'minor' changes, not a Lunacy game.

 [/align]See now.  Damian has the long and short of it.  I want to do a fairly routine thing like grab ALL TERRITORY in a 10,000,000,000,000 Sq Mile area and he says I cannot do it.[/align]
Kelly's Heroes:  "Logistics!?  We have logistics coming out of our a**es."[/align][font=calibri][/font][font=calibri][/font] [/align][/align]

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: Grunt

Would you consider striking deep first...Pago Pago, Suva, Luganville, Noumea...and then back fill later? Those locations will never get easier and taking them would sure throw a spanner in the Allied ability to reinforce the area and Oz.

Welcome to the AAR. I was taught by Mr. Moses that the Japanese opening turn is more about getting things positioned and moving then in landing at 20 different points on the compass. The opening will be conservative and different within my area.

This does not mean I won't have troops on transports moving towards objectives, it simply means that the Allies will have a few days to try and figure something out for a defense before we BLOW IT AWAY! Would prefer them getting some troops moving towards future contested areas so we can sink those boys in 15,000 feet of water and not be landing on our shores.

My moves will be protected by CV Air in nearly all landings. Historically the Japanese didn't land outside of their LBA or CV Escort range. This makes total sense to me in AE since things are much more difficult here then in WitP.

Good question though. Keep those up!

[John 3rd]

Here is the Mod's CV Line-Up for Japan at start:
 
JAPANESE CARRIER OOB 41/42

2 x CV Amagi Class - Available Dec '41
36,000tons / 31 knots / 84 aircraft

2 x CV Shokaku Class - Available Dec '41
23,000tons / 32 knots / 81 aircraft

2 x CV Soryu Class - Available Dec '41
27,500tons / 33 knots / 90 aircraft

2 x CV Hiryu Class - Available Dec '41
27,500tons / 33 knots / 90 aircraft

2 x CV Junyo Class - Commissioned Mid '42
29,500tons / 33 knots / 96 aircraft

1 x CV Taiho Class - Commissioned Late '42
32,500tons / 32 knots / 75 aircraft

In addition, there are 2 CVLs;
1 Ryujo CVL / 15,000tons / 29 knots / 36 aircraft
1 Shinyo CVL / 16,500tons / 31 knots / 42 aircraft
Plus another 2 due to arrive through '42;
2 Junho CVL / 23,500tons / 30 knots / 60 aircraft

There is also 1 CVE;
1 Hosho CVE / 7,500tons / 25 knots / 18 aircraft
Plus another 2 due to arrive through '42;
2 Unyo CVE / 14,000tons / 23 knots / 27 aircraft

There are also conversions possibilties, which could amount to up to 6 more CVLs (~40 a/c) and 8 more CVEs (~25 a/c). I strongly recommend using a house rule to limit the number and availability of conversions.

[FatR]

I'll watch this AAR with great interest, as I myself would like to play Japanese in PBEM sometime soon.

By the way, an immediate Japanese move into SWPac was what I feared at the beginning of my PBEM against Michael. Defenses everywhere are horribly weak. However, I think that Japanese must commit at least 4 carriers from KB to that operation (in stock, don't know how much CVs Allies have in Enhanced CV mod). Unless you're fairly sure that your opponents are too cautious for their own good and won't contest it. Long-range amphibious operations are very vulnerable, and Allies stand to lose too much if SWPac falls early.

[ny59giants]

From: Economics Ministry & Operations Dept

To: Admiral Cochran

Re: Early Objectives

Admiral,

Your operations in the "Deep South" will involve the burning of Atlanta (sorry Dan, I couldn't resist). [:D] Following this successful operation, transports from the Home Islands will pick up 2 x JNAF (24 Aviation Support each) and 5 BF (72 Aviation Support) to support your operations from the Marianas.

The allocation of Air HQs are as follows (command range):
11 Air Fleet (5) - Takao
2 Air HQ (4) - Truk (from Manchuria)
21 Air HQ (1) - Truk (initial redeployment)
23 Air (1) - Ambon
5 Air HQ (4) - Koepang and/or Denpassar
22 Air HQ (1) - Malaya
3 Air HQ (4) - Singkawang

Operation Histrionic (since I am a Mental Health counselor I will use DSM-IV names for my operations) [;)]
This will be a series of lightning quick (at least I hope so) invasions of key bases with the purpose of cutting off Java from reinforcements and withdrawals. As mentioned in a prior post, bases that are bypassed will be back filled at our leisure.

Left Flank -
Ambon (will redirect TF assigned to land at Legaspi here). More troops will be assigned as needed.
Dobo (there are 3 x JNAF companies and II/81 Nav Gd at Babeldoab that were to go towards Truk and take bases along the northern coast of New Guinea). The purpose is to provide a base for Mavis to watch the Torres Straits.
Lautem & Kendari - hopefully close to the same time
Koepang - base for 5 Air HQ to help slow down the flow to/from Java
Makassar
Denpasser - close off Java's southern escape route
Darwin - 21st Division at Shanghai will hopefully land here in early Jan 42

Right Flank -
Singkawang - base to isolate Singapore and close of Straits between Java and Sumatra using 3 Air HQ.
Kuching - addition base for Ms Nell/Betty (in my other game I got the Air HQs backwards and forgot to take into account range of HQs)
Billiton - Every JFBs new favorite base to allow Batavia to be closed down.

I got caught up with Manado in my other game and would rather avoid it this time. While that base is nice to have, it can cause delays and extra forces being sent there.

Operation Kleptomania
Northern China is the overall objective here with the goal of getting more Oil (if that is possible). I am strongly considering using the 6 x Tank Rgt from Manchuria (just over 400 assault value) here after command change. Mobility being the key. I could have the title be "Sian or Bust." Rather than fighting in the Chengchow and Loyang area, I will try to force my way through Nanyang to get to Sian. As my partner keeps saying, this game is about logistics. Cut off the Chinese from their source in this part of China. I will use my current game as a guide to know what troops need to go where to free up more powerful formations while meeting garrison requirements.

Naval forces - John has more of a flair in this area and some of the SC TF assigned to the SRA area will be his to hit and sink the Allies fleet. As long as he doesn't leave my transports vulnerable, he will be able to cause destruction.

More to follow....
Admiral Benoit

[LoBaron]

"Operation Kleptomania" [:D]
 
This 2v2 will be fun to watch for sure. Good luck!

[Canoerebel]

I'll be watching, gents.  Best of luck.
 

[John 3rd]

Here we go with the opening offensive operating from Truk.

The RED are targets to be taken by Dec 15th

YELLOW Targets by January 1st

Australia Landing by January 15th

This set of landings will be covered initially by two CVL and then be augmented by the KB.

The 'fist' of the landings shall consist of 4th ID and an Independent Brigade with LOTS of support.

Visuals:

[Canoerebel]

Be careful.  There have been quite a few Allied players sending carriers to Oz and the DEI following Pearl Harbor.  You don't want two CVLs to face Lexington and Enterprise.
 
I think fuel is a real problem for the Japanese early on, especially after the organic load that your ships begin the game with are used up.  You'll have to ration and plan carefully.
 
That said I have no doubt that you'll take your objectives and give your opponents fits.
 
 
 

[Mike Solli]

I'll vouch for the fuel problem.  There's sufficient fuel at Truk, but good luck moving it south and west.