rof?

[freeboy]

Is it just me or does the 40$ game selling add on planes seem a little off? I do not mind paying to play with toys, but to me 5-10$ a pop for planes that are already createdseems a little bit of the upsell, the kind that leaves a bad taste!
Again, I do not mind paying for upgrades, this just somehow feels exploitive...
comments?

[comte]

Yeah I agree buying mini add ons for a game like individual planes just doesn't seem right, I would rather a full add on that added alot of planes and maybe some other features then mini ones for $10 a pop.

[JudgeDredd]

I don't think there's anything wrong with it for several reasons...

1. They're a business not a charity and being in business they need to make money
2. They are trying to make money in a genre that has decade rapidly over the last 10 years
3. It's freedom of choice. You can choose to buy them or not. You can choose to buy some, none, one or all. You can also choose when to buy them. For example, if they were to sell 4 planes as an addon for £20 (and I doubt anyone would find that unreasonable) then you'd have to stump up £20. The way they are doing it means you only have to find £7....
4. They keep a trickle of money coming in to keep them developing - how can that be a bad thing if the company is good?


At the risk of sounding "old and grumpy", I think the issue might be partly down to the culture we are living in now, where people think they should have what they want, when they want and for the price they want.

Each of those planes, the work that's gone into the art and the flight model (and anyone can come here if they want and post that the planes fly the same...but they'd be lying) is worth £7. You are getting a lot of work in a plane for £7 imo. Even if you don't think you are - and? Don't buy them. Neoqb need to make money to make games. They've found what I consider to be a good business plan and they've found a reasonable price.

I do not and have not bought the little sprite pack addons for HoI3 or the "special unit" addons for Empire:Total War. That doesn't mean I disagree with them (though I do think it's pretty cheap of companies to do so without making sure their game works first)...just that I didn't/couldn't/wouldn't pay the money for these "enhancements".

[wodin]

I agree with Judge. I am willing to pay for those planes because I know they are worth the small amount of money.

[Josh]

I agree with Freeboy, it's exploitative.
I see it as selling an unfinished product, period.

Back in the old days, when a game was a selling hit, then they came up with a sequel or an addon. Sometimes a year later. Then came the time not so long ago that they were already working on the addons before the original had gone gold, so enabling them to ship it within three months or so. I still have no problem with this. But now we are in a situation where they try to cut the game into saleable pieces, a small piece of this and a small piece of that, pick what you want to play. IMO that's an unfinished product, it's not a total package they're selling, it's been stripped to the bare minimum... without getting any cheaper. Buying the whole package, as they would like you too, would make the game double as expensive. HoI III did it for me, selling sprites and sounds afterwards that should've been in the game anyway.

Now if a game, that already has everything in it, *still* needs some addons, like Judge says, then it's a good business plan to ask a few bucks for sprites/planes/ whatever. Ofcourse, it's up to the buyer to buy or not, but releasing an empty shell, and then asking money to make the game..*a game* that is not something I'm waiting for.

[Phatguy]

The only problem I have with this is if the game in question is not finished(bug-ridden mess) and instead of fixing the bugs the company tosses out these "mini-enhancements"... Personally I dont plan on buying them.[/align]

[JudgeDredd]

Well I guess I see it differently because I don't see RoF as an unfinished product. It seems to me to be very polished and stable. I didn't buy it on release, so couldn't comment on the released version. But as the game stands now, it's polished and comes with 4 aircraft, a campaign and many single missions...to me that's complete, so they can create all the add on aircraft they want. If I want them and they're the right price, then I'll buy them...if I don't want them or I don't think the price is right, then I won't

I do not mind paid content as long as
a) It's not done in such a way as to reduce the initial game to a shell
b) The game is finished
c) The addon content is both worth it and priced right

These are companies after all. Everyone bitches about the cost of ink cartridges for their favourite printer...but the only reason you have a printer in the first place is because they were able to sell it cheap enough for you to do so...they then make their money through the cartirdges...that's how companies work...they make money and milk whatever they can from a product. Sometimes it's warranted, sometimes it's not...I'm not saying it's always right...but the concept is right

[Scott_WAR]

At 10$ a pop I would pay $40 for 4 extra planes. Sorry, I would not buy a flight sim game with only 4 planes (AKA incomplete, heck world war 2 had 5 major powers in it, but they can only include 4 planes? Thats really pathetic)) in it,..so I will not spend $40 on 4 planes for a games.

Now, if for $10 I got a plane, with a campaign and some single missions for each plane as well,...that MIGHT be worth it.

[Hard Sarge]

one thing, for us Yanks, it is 7.62 a plane, so not 10 bucks

plus you could of gotten them in the bundle discounts also

for me, I enjoyed it, think it is a decent game that is going to get better as time goes on

I got 3 planes as of now to get, the S.E.5a, the Dolphine and the Camel (I fly mainly for the other side, so never picked them up yet, but I do want the S.E.5a)

I think I got my money's worth out of the game already, so over all, while not overly happy with the idea, won't complain that I did buy the extra planes

[Joram]

Personally I hate that pricing model.  I have mentioned it in several places and will certainly several more.  I don't like being nickel and dimed to death.  Maybe it's just nostalgia on how things used to be, I don't know but I avoid games with those kind of pricing models.  With that said, Hard Sarge and others probably said it best.  If they feel they get the value for the money, then I guess that's what matters.  At the end of the day though, paying $80+ for a game and a few extra planes is not worth it to me.

[freeboy]

If you want to sell me something, I DO NOT MIND, what I find offensive is the selling things peice meal... buy the game , by the t shirt by the manual why, why cannot one simply pay one amount? It goes to motive, why not be up front and honest, the whole game cost 159.00 or 259? The reason is folks would probably gag on pricing like that... Why do I need a tshirt?
Why do I need X, I hate "bate and switch" and any kind of hypocrasy, and the two above who had no issue with this, BRAVO, I think are in no small part to being sold on the game.. again not an issue with the game... BUT about the deceipt... Are you really selling me a game, like  a ticket to an amusement park where you then sell me more stuff? Seriously may be it is a culteral thing,  Theis issue and that I do not play online only games leaves me, and many others sadly offline and playing other games....

[JudgeDredd]

lol - Who was deceived? No one. [:-]

[Hard Sarge]

Freeboy

I think part of what your missing here, is that not all of the planes, were ready, or done, when the game came out

as they are working on the game, they are also working on new plane models

to be honest, I think they were "only" planning on a late 1918 sim, but once the game came out, was close to being out, the players wanted other planes, other stuff added to the game (which, adds costs to them, that they wern't expecting)

so they kind of stuck, add new planes, and charge for it, or just leave it as it was, and all the players are disappointed

of course I could be wrong, but that is how I read it, from following there forums

but again, each there own, if you like it, go for it, if you don't leave it alone, and in the long run, you can always just play the demo

[freeboy]

I am not complaining about companies making a profit, its the way they are doing it.. I personally think they needed to hire some WESTERN marketing and design help... this game probably is the best sim released in ages.. BUT most will never even see it on there pc's as a result of multiple decisions that just scream out of touch with their market.. imo

[Jeffrey H.]

If you know about the approach up front, then it's a non issue. If they promise certain features, (including generic and indefinite language like "full planeset" or somehting like that) and then they turn around and say you have to pay for things that a normal person would consider included, then I'd say that's bait and switch.
 
If a person jumps inknowing that they will have to pay for additional content and they know what they basic game includes, then I don't see them as having grounds for serious complaint.
 

[Southernland]

Customer "I think this TV is f**ked!"
Store "Why's that sir?"
Customer "It'll only play one channel! Fox!"
Store "Oh, I see. You really wanted the multiple channel model. Well other channels are available sir, only $5 per..."

Customer 2 "I think this car is f**ked!"
Store 2 "Why's that sir?"
Customer "It's only got one gear! Reverse!"
Store 2 "Oh, I see. You really wanted the multiple gear model. Well other gears are available sir, only $5 per..."

Customer 3 "I think this Book is f**ked!"
Store 3 "Why's that sir?"
Customer 3 "It's only got ten pages!"
Store 3 "Oh, I see. You really wanted the full story version. You should have specified that on purchase. Well other deci-pages are available sir, only $5 per..."

Of course the game should be sold intact and complete.

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Southern_land

Of course the game should be sold intact and complete.

hehe, funny. But it's a valid marketing model IF the customer is being informed (beforehand) that 4 gears are missing. Anyone who thinks the 1-gear model is anything but complete can still avoid/boycott that product. A publisher or distributor who'd try to make tons of money by omitting (a) vital (lack of) features would incur my wrath, though.

[Arctic Blast]

The game functions without purchasing the other planes...therefore, it IS sold intact and complete.

Don't want to support the DLC model? It's real easy...don't buy the other planes. Your game still works perfectly fine without them.

There's nothing to complain about here. If it was something being held back that severely reduced the game's functionality, sure. That would be a serious issue that I think almost anyone would take offense to. That isn't the case here.

That's my two cents on it, anyway.

[Greybriar]

ORIGINAL: Southern_land

....Of course the game should be sold intact and complete.

Welcome to the world of Downloadable Content (DLC). If SecuROM says it's a good idea, it must be--right?

I don't pay for DLC. If I purchase a game, I feel it should have everything included with it that every other purchaser of the same game gets. Having to pay extra for DLC instead of an expansion doesn't seem right to me.

But as long as there are enough supporters of DLC, it will continue to nickel and dime us to death if we want a "complete" game.

[freeboy]

I finaly got the demo up and running, a fine product that and certainly one that could have been sold for a higher price properly bundled... oh well.. just my 05cents worth