Wish list for a possible new patch

[Tordenskiold]

The game is great, in particular in PBEM mode. But, I wish for some improvements if there is a new patch on its way:
1. A visualization of the sub warfare and the impact of British PP's. No it is hard to see why the Axis should vaste PP's on subs and raiders at all.
2. Get reports about loss of generals
3. Improve the report screen. It is a bit messy now and difficult to handle if one control several countries.
4. Improve the navy control panel so only the fleet for the country on control at the moment are visible. It would also help if 8 groups where visible at the time instead of 4.
5. It seems impossible to replay Dunkirk because it does not function as a port. Why?
6. In PBEM the events that are presented is often presented to the wrong player. As allied I have been asked about if I wanted to commission the german cruiser Blucher and how to treat the Poles after their surrender, among other things. Clearly a bug.

Best regards
Tordenskjold

[Radar8717]

Railroad or SMP movement, into a newly captured city, is currently possible on the next game turn. Can it be delayed several more turns, instead of on just the next game turn? This could help model damaged rail lines, logistical difficulties when advancing, and conversion of different track gauges into the USSR. I also wish that partisan activity and strategic bombing would reduce the available SMP.

[billyjj]

For the subs I was just assuming that "UK has U-boot strike event" means that I hit some convoys... but i see your point because with strategic bomber you know your making an impact because you can see the city pp points go down. I haven't played as England yet, does the German AI beat you so bad that you need to evacute? 

[Tordenskiold]

Exactly billyjj. I have never been kicked out of the UK but on the other hand we never reached that far before we decided to restart the game. It freezed during a turn where I as the allied player had to do the Lithuania moves for my opponent since even though the country was set to be controlled by him, he was not able to do the moves. So, clearly some bugs in PBEM.

Good points Radar!

T

[billyjj]

Radar, I dont know how things happened during the actual war, but it is hard for me to imagine that in frozen conditions I could lay railroad tracks from Poland to lets say Minsk even with in 1 months time, but who knows maybe they used existing track. But yea I think maybe there should be a 2 turn delay. But this is actually not a pressing issue for me, as long as both sides can do it I dont think it throws off the gameplay. There are more urgent issues that need fixing like the whole tac-bomber / landing craft interception situations. Good Idea though.

[RocketMan]

The ability to click and drag the main map like you can do with the mini map.

[AH4Ever]

I like wish lists because they are wistfully hopeful. A gathering of potential energy that could, well you know could.

Then there is the concept of the next patch. Here we sit waiting for 1.80 as it nears completion and there is mention of "One Point Whatever" that will address PBEM. I guess it should be this one that we focus our collective consciousness on.

So here I go, If I could have one and only one wish it would be to replace the current naval system with the hex based system that has to be in development for "Storm Over the Pacific".

This would address several of the points made above, I could go on and I usually do but this time I am going to concentrate my thoughts on this one wish.

Tak Tytoń Wirginia , tu jest pewien Gwiazdor.

[Uxbridge]

AH (have it ever occured to you that most people probably don't think the initials stands for Avalon Hill [:)]), could you enlighten me some on the development of the naval system for SOP. I haven't followed that particularly, but know that naval units now move in hexes like ground units.

But is this fleets with several groups in them, or does every group move by itself, taking up the entire hex space? The first would be splendid, with battles fought as they are now, but in the moment they occur. On the other hand, if it is the latter, I for one would prefer things as they are now.

Single units were one of the most devastation faults with Strategic Command and Commander and leads to countless silly situations.

[Anraz]

Uxbridge, let me answer instead of AH4Ever

Every group of ships move itself and any number of groups can be in the same area. We decided to make larger areas due to week turns, ships speed and size of the whole Pacific map (365x201=~73k hexes).  Some players might have his own view considering size of those sea areas so we made them easy to change with game editor, which will be attached to the game, just look at its possibilities  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHsZF4GnRsY ).  

And regarding those areas:

[Uxbridge]

The quickest way of getting an answer from someone authorized or qualified to give that answer, is to ask the question to someone who is not. [:)]

Nice movie. Almost better than Lord of the Rings.

Anyway, I'm still somewhat in the dark regarding my main concern. The groups move individually, you say. But can they attack individually? Can a battlegroup move to an area, discover a patrolgroup there and attack it? And, if so, can the same player then bring in more units, striking the lone patrolgroup until it's finished?

Or do the naval combat of the game take place between turns, as it is now?

[AH4Ever]

ORIGINAL: Uxbridge

The quickest way of getting an answer from someone authorized or qualified to give that answer, is to ask the question to someone who is not.[:)]

How sly of you, I was wondering why you were asking me. I mean I'm just a guy hoping that any form of hex based control is better than what we have now and that it can be made to work in ToW.

[Uxbridge]

No, really. I saw your comment, thought you knew more than me and just continued the thread. If I need to ask WI anything they are very quick to reply.

But I must say I'm actually beginning to enjoy the current naval system. In some regards it is very much like real life. I'm presently playing UK and the problems with the uboats and raiders seem very natural. I don't know where they are, so I have to pour assetts into the sea zones and hope for the best. The one sad thing is that one doesn't get to watch the battles. It would be very good if the sea battles were saved and that all players could have a reprise of it in their respective turn.

But as I said, I'm still very much in the dark concerning the SOP system.

[AH4Ever]

I'm not overjoyed by the lack of mission control or that when ships encounter each other there is no way to send more assets into the battle.

Thank you for thinking I know more than I do, it's always nice to be well thought of.[;)]

[Uxbridge]

Well, once I figured out what those initial stood for some way back, your status rised immensely. You haven't disappointed me this far. But I always wondered about your avatar. What goes on in your head?

And we're still waiting for: The groups move individually, but can they attack individually? Can a battlegroup move to an area, discover a patrolgroup there and attack it? And, if so, can the same player then bring in more units, striking the lone patrolgroup until it's finished? Or do the naval combat of the game take place between turns, as it is now?

[Romdanzer]

Uxbridge - AH4Ever - you guys have to remember though the fundamental Problem of time scale with respect to Naval Warfare in a game which also has Land Warfare on this scale.

In 1 Week's time a tremendous amount can happen with respect to movement distance with Naval Warfare, but in respect to movement distance in Land Warfare 1 week is not all that much in camparison.

Every simulation game on these scales such as ToW, Third Reich, WiF, ...etc... has this problem.

For example the command attributes you are talking about with "discovering a enemy patrol group and calling in other ships to attack it" - well that is timescale on the order of like 12-24 hours with Naval warfare.... for the question arises: Why can't the enemy react in similar fashion once he see's you moving in and also call reinforcements? Within 48 hours reinforcements could be moving in and arriving from both sides, completely changeing the original situation..... and all this in an altogether shorter time frame than the 1 week timeframe of ToW. You need a game like Bitter Glory or Hearts of Iron which simulate every hour to have things like that possible.

So what do you do? ..... some compromise obviously where you in some form or fasion "summarize" all the Naval Combat dynamics that happened in 1 week in one result.... but I don't know really. I have yet to see a game with relatively "large" turn time frames (i.e. ones where the turn is 1 week or longer) come up with a really satisfying and yet simple Naval Warfare simulation and not become too complex about it like for example "War in the Pacific" - which easily become niche-games for diehards.

Romdanzer

[AH4Ever]

Your points are indeed valid, I guess it comes down to hoping that the grass is actually greener when you finally get to the other side.

As it stands now I would like to see the game played out on the main map. There are certainly quite a few hexes available for it.

[Anraz]

Romdanzer`s nimble words clarified our concerns very well. The bigger  theater the more difficult to reconcile hours with weeks. That is why we left naval battles between turns.

[Uxbridge]

ORIGINAL: Anraz

Romdanzer`s nimble words clarified our concerns very well. The bigger  theater the more difficult to reconcile hours with weeks. That is why we left naval battles between turns.

Ah, finally!! There was probably the answer. [:)]

One moves the groups one by one during the turn, then all combats are resolved pretty much as before, at the end/beginning of each turn? That's fine by me.

[borsook79]

1. Raiders inflicting damage on their attackers.

2. Delayed production of "specialized" units.

3. Less passive AI

4. Tweaking down Strategic Bombers

[zoot]

retreating units caused by combat results should not have a zone of control which cuts attackers supply off.
Red army should defend cities and not leave them empty, they are important to German supply.
What happen to Soviet partisans? There are plenty of Polish.Enable the AI to see that it is being bagged and then fight its way out instead of just letting the units sit there.
Keep the British and french navy from just sitting in the north sea and getting bombed to dust every turn.
Have British units in France actually attack the Germans.
Just some thoughts
Zoot