Questions for the modders

[YankeeAirRat]

I have been playing WiTP now off and on since it has been released and looking at the different various mods that people have produced for both the original and now AE. Which is awesome and I really appericate all the work that I have seen done out there. I have a question, this has tickled my head since seeing the thread about Shep's Graphics. I remember having way back when in the age of DOS a game by SSI called "Carrier Strike" one of the expansions they did for this was suppose that the war in the pacific didn't start until after Germany was defeated. So all of thier scenarios had the Yorktown class ships with F6F's, SB2C's, TBM's in place of the Lex and Sara in some of the carrier battles. Some of the Essex classes with F8F's, F4U, F7F, AF, BTD/AD airwings, and the Midway class in play with similar air wings.
My question is this, is there anyone out there that has thought of doing a Witp '46 scenario which basically starts the war 1944/45 time frame?
I know that I could try and build this mod myself, but looking at the editior for the original and for AE I am just over-whelmed by all the stuff in there and just don't even now where to begin on creating a modified scenario. Which makes me wonder if anyone has created a "How to create a Scenario for dummies" document?

[topeverest]

Modding is not for the weak at heart. Ito do it well requires experience in System Development / Product Development on some scale. The design tail on the scenario you suggest is above most speculative scenarios - you have to postualte what forces each side would have, where they are placed, as well as all the particulars on the tacticals for the game. It also will be difficult to know the level of playability unless several play-test games are conducted

That is a big bite if you've not built a smaller one already. My rec is to reread the editor info docs and make a detailed doc of all the things you plan to change prior to actually trying to do anything. I can give you a SWAG on your development effort to be 500 to 1000 hours of hard work.

You might want to pull down some of the mods already out there.

[RyanCrierie]

I've actually thought about doing something like this, but set in the 1948-1954 period -- basically when a lot of things had emerged and were now changing the way things were in warfare -- you had a whole new generation of amphibious ships coming online in the 1950s which would be able to sustain 20 knot cruise speeds; which changes the dynamics of how you play the game.

[chesmart]

Instead of doing the Grand Campaign like most of us are doing why dont you start with one of the scenarios like the Mariannas Campaign which Andy has done it would be a lot easier.

Ryan I am looking forward for your Mod as I like the time period you want to Mod especially if you add your wondrful artwork. In  Harpoon 3 there was a database Mod 1945-1970 and was one of my favourites. Doing it for WITP AE would be a tough job though.

[RyanCrierie]

Started to work together a scenario that would work with YankeeAirRat's original postulation.

Basic POD:

Germany crushes Europe, blah blah. Jackboots marching through Paris. Armistice signed Blah Blah.

Hitler visits Paris via flying into Le Bourget airport. After the conclusion of his tour, he leaves via the airport; and his Ju-52 crashes blah blah.

Death of Hitler allows Lord Halifax to lead a parlimentary manouver that removes Churchill from power and installs him as PM; allowing an armistice to be signed between the British Empire and Germany, blah blah.

Germany eventually partially withdraws from France and Poland; after pretty throroughly puppeting them, to the point where they're basically fascist dictatorships aligned with Berlin, blah blah.

Germans and Soviets continue to stare each other down across eastern europe -- Europe is a tinder box that's ready to explode again by 1945.

Germany has gained at least one or two colonies in Asia via skullduggery at the negotiations following the formal end of the War of 1939; they basically tell the Netherlands and France -- "gee, we'd like to withdraw from your countries, but you know, we need something a little...extra."

So at least one major island in the Dutch East Indies chain is basically a German Colony now; along with possibly parts of Indochina?

The new German colonies in Asia; along with the added influence of the Germans in the region -- "look, you really do want to sell oil to the Japanese. No really. You DO want to. It would be a shame if we expanded our holdings..." manages to restrain japanese territoral ambitions through the early 1940s. However, by 1945; they're starting to get a bit itchy.....

So my random list of ships in service for the US Navy in this hypothetical 1945:

(NOTE: I am assuming that Congress funds the initial stages of the "Two Ocean Navy" act; basically the FY40 Essexes; but does not fund the FY43 Essexes, due to the lack of any real perceived shooting war yet.)

Battleships

BB-40 New Mexico (Training ship, West Coast)
BB-42 Idaho (Training ship, East Coast)

BB-43 Tennessee (Scheduled for Retirement in 1-2 years; was slightly modernized in 1942.)
BB-44 California (Scheduled for Retirement in 1-2 years; was slightly modernized in 1942.)
BB-45 Colorado (Scheduled for Retirement in 1-2 years; was slightly modernized in 1942.)
BB-46 Maryland (Scheduled for Retirement in 1-2 years; was slightly modernized in 1942.)
BB-48 West Virginia (Scheduled for Retirement in 1-2 years; was slightly modernized in 1942.)

BB-55 North Carolina (North Carolina Class)
BB-56 Washington (North Carolina Class)
BB-57 South Dakota (North Carolina Class)
BB-58 Indiana (North Carolina Class)

BB-59 Massachusetts (South Dakota Class)
BB-60 Alabama (South Dakota Class)
BB-61 Iowa (South Dakota Class)
BB-62 New Jersey (South Dakota Class)

BB-63 Missouri (Iowa Class)
BB-64 Wisconsin (Iowa Class)
BB-65 Illinois (Iowa Class)
BB-66 Kentucky (Iowa Class)

BB-67 Montana
BB-68 Ohio
BB-69 Maine
BB-70 New Hampshire (arrives a few months after game start)
BB-71 Louisiana (arrives 2 months after BB-71)

You can see how once the old ships are gone, the U.S. Navy will have a modern battleline built around 26-28 knot ships; backed up by a wing of fast 33 knot battleships for a total of 18 battleships.

Carriers

CV-2 Lexington (Training ship, West Coast, is on track for retirement by 1947-48).
CV-3 Saratoga (Training ship, East Coast, is on track for retirement by 1947-48).

CV-4 Ranger (In Ordinary, due to be scrapped)

CV-5 Yorktown
CV-6 Enterprise
CV-7 Wasp (Replaced Ranger in Fleet)
CV-8 Hornet

CV-9 Essex
CV-10 Bon Homme Richard
CV-11 Intrepid
CV-12 Kearsarge
CV-13 Franklin
CV-14 Hancock
CV-15 Randolph
CV-16 Cabot
CV-17 Bunker Hill
CV-18 Oriskany
CV-19 Ticonderoga

Midway Class:
CVB-20 Gettysburg (arrives a few months after game start)
CVB-21 Shiloh (arrives 1.25 months after CVB-20)
CVB-22 Antietam (arrives in early 1946)
CVB-23 Chickamauga (arrives in mid-1946)

You can see how the hull numbers are significantly different, because there was no wartime rush to build CVLs or CVEs; more time can be spent on building the next generation of LARGE carriers that are planned to replace the Lexingtons and Yorktowns in service. Also, the names are different, because of no wartime renaming to honor lost ships.

Cruisers

To Be Done

Destroyers

To Be Done

Submarines

To Be Done

Aircraft for Various Nationalities

Warhawk/Kittyhawk: Popular export design by Curtiss. Was retired from USAAF service a few years ago.

Mustang: Popular export design by North American. Available in both fighter and dive bomber versions (aka Allison powered P-51A)

Lightning: Somewhat popular export design by Lockheed.

Aircraft for The US Army Air Forces

A-24 Dauntless: Ordered in the early rush following the Nazi Blitzkreig of 1940. Leaving service, in favor of more dedicated multi-role types.

A-25 Helldiver: Ordered in the early rush following the Nazi Blitzkreig of 1940. Leaving service, in favor of more dedicated multi-role types.

P-47 Thunderbolt: Standard fighter of the USAAF. Replaced P-38, P-39, P-40, and P-63 in service, due to excellence at high altitudes.

P-72 Thunderstorm: Replaced the Thunderbolt on the production lines at Republic in late 1944.

P-58 Chain Lightning: This was started due to the British and French wanting to buy the Model 322 Lightning from Lockheed, while the US Army had already ordered the YP-38. The USAAF finally let Lockheed export the non turbosupercharged Lightning to the UK and France; but on the condition that Lockheed produce an advanced Lightning at no cost to the US Government.

After the originally chosen XH-2600 engine died, Lockheed came down on the side of using the R-2800, but the USAAF told them to use the XR-2160 Tornado engine as it felt it would be too underpowered. This engine suffered from long delays and finally died in 1943.

The schedule was that the XP-58 would be delivered in August 1942; and the Lockheed team grew to 187 people by October 1941. But then Pearl Harbor was attacked, and the P-58 project was lowered in priority and the engineering team was reassigned; causing the P-58 team to only have 12 people by early 1942.

So since, Pearl Harbor was never attacked, the brain drain never occurs. Plus the Lockheed team can come down firmly on the R-2800 side and allay USAAF concerns about lack of sufficient horsepower to maintain speed by going back to a single seat version. So the P-58 doesn't suck.

..................

A lot more fleshing out needs to be done; namely what DOES the US Navy fly? Since we don't have the tiny decks of CVLs and CVEs; this means that the USN can demand BIGGER, HEAVIER, FASTER fighters, like the F7F Tigercat and F8B Five in One, instead of lightweight jobs like the FR-1 Fireball and F8F Bearcat.

[Jo van der Pluym]

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

So at least one major island in the Dutch East Indies chain is basically a German Colony now; along with possibly parts of Indochina?

I do suggest the Dutch parts of Borneo. Because there is the best and most oil. (Balikpanan and Tarakan)

[chesmart]

Ryan if you need Data for German units I can help you out got Toes up to 1945 of all major aircraft and land units

[topeverest]

Ryan,

Very interesting postulation. One question for your pondering...if Armistic in europe (prior to??) US entry in war, why would Roosevelt create a war footing CVB Heavy navy as postulated - and why would the Navy / Army have the need or foresight to build such advanced plane types if there was no war going on to push technology forward so fast...

It doesnt mean it wouldnt be fun to play though. The devil will be in the play balancing.

It appears to be more of a set-piece war with limited reinforcements, or am I looking at this wrong?

[RyanCrierie]

Very interesting postulation. One question for your pondering...if Armistic in europe (prior to??) US entry in war, why would Roosevelt create a war footing CVB Heavy navy as postulated

That's a very good question.

For answers; you need to consult

The Third Vinson Act

and

The Two Ocean Navy Bill

Okay. Now lets explain this.

The 3rd Vinson Act passed just as the Nazis were marching down the streets of Paris, etc; and it called for:

75,000 tons of Carriers
66,000 tons of Cruisers
21,000 tons of Submarines
75,000 tons of Auxilaries

It also defined "overage" for warships as:

Battleships: 26 Years
Aircraft Carriers/Cruisers: 20 Years
Other Surface Ships: 16 Years
Submarines: 13 Years

A month later, with the Germans quite literally in control of all of Western Europe; the Two Ocean Navy Bill sailed through congress, authorizing an additional:

385,000 tons of Battleships
200,000 tons of Aircraft Carriers
420,000 tons of Cruisers
250,000 tons of Destroyers
75,000 tons of Submarines
100,000 tons of auxilaries
15,000 Naval Aircraft

The combined bills increased the US Navy's tonnage by:

Battleships: 385,000 tons (7 x 50 kton battleships)
Carriers: 275,000 tons (7 x 38 kton carriers)
Cruisers: 486,000 tons (40 x 12 kton average cruiser size)
Destroyers: 250,000 tons (125 x 2 kton destroyers)
Submarines: 96,000 tons (64 x 1.5 kton Submarines)
Auxilaries: 175,000 tons (no real consensus on standard auxilaries)

This amounts for quite a lot of tonnage in terms of battleships and carriers.

So where do the extra couple of ships come from in my scenario?

Under the Third Vinson Act's definition of 'overage', the following ships become overage:

BB-34 New York: 09/19/38
BB-35 Texas: 09/11/38
BB-36 Nevada: 04/08/40
BB-37 Oklahoma: 03/05/40
BB-38 Pennsylvania: 03/05/42
BB-39 Arizona: 04/26/42
BB-40 New Mexico: 06/06/42
BB-41 Mississippi: 10/11/42
BB-42 Idaho: 05/13/44
BB-43 Tennessee: 12/12/43
BB-44 California: 03/17/45
BB-45 Colorado: 05/28/46
BB-46 Maryland: 08/04/47
BB-48 West Virginia: 08/23/49

CV-2 Lexington: 12/09/47
CV-3 Saratoga: 11/11/47

You can see how by 1944; the U.S. Navy is faced with ten battleships becoming overage, and in a couple years, three more battleships and two fleet carriers become overage. Their replacements have to be funded to maintain fleet levels, plus to increase it by the tonnage demanded by Congress in the Third Vinson and Two Ocean Bills.

However, because Pearl Harbor doesn't happen, there's no further naval expansion acts like the Naval Expansion Act of 1942, which was passed a month after the Battle of Midway. That one added 500,000 tons more of aircraft carriers (13 x 38 kton carriers); and formed I believe the basis for the FY43 Essexes (CV-32 to CV-40) and the four Midways (CVB-41 to CVB-44).

So the US Navy ends up with just sixteen to eighteen fleet carriers in 1945, as opposed to the historical 28 they had on V-J Day.

As for the Midways; you need to fund carriers in the FY42 or FY43 budgets so that they commission in time to replace the Lexington and Saratoga; and by that point, the various Naval Treaties limiting tonnage of warships are so much confetti, so the FY42 and FY43 carriers will be unconstrained by them, leading to the various rough size and dimension of the Midways.

But yes, you probably do have a point about the excess number of Midways. I will trim them down to just being the explict replacements for the Lex and Sara.

Why would the Navy / Army have the need or foresight to build such advanced plane types if there was no war going on to push technology forward so fast...

I agree that some technological levels will be retarded. I'll explain below:

Radar: Running several years behind historical, since there was no big war that poured a lot of money and resources into radar by everyone.

Atomic Bomb:While the Manhattan Engineering District would be chartered; it would not have the gargantugan amount of funding it had historically. So by 1945; they've proven that Atomic fission is feasible, that it's feasible to construct an atomic bomb; and have started production at small pilot Uranium enrichment plants and small scale Plutonium production via reactors.

This is needed for the next step in research and development -- you need to conduct a lot of materials science research into the properties of Fissile material -- how it can be machined, what effects does it have on materials in contact with it; so that you can build a working atomic bomb.

The German Bomb program would be horribly behind everyone else's, due to Heisenberg's fundamental errors in calculations early on in the program, which weren't realized until rather late in the game. These errors convinced the German political leadership that an Atomic Bomb program was too much cost for no benefit (Heisenberg calculated that it would take several tons of fissionable material to make a bomb, rather than a few kilograms).

The Japanese bomb program, ironically, would probably be much well ahead of the German one, but still behind the American one. From what I understand, the Japanese made the right calculations in real life, and concluded that an Atomic bomb was feasible -- but when they went to the higher leadership -- they were asked: "How much will this cost?" and "Will it be completed in time to make a change in the war situation?". When they were told "It'll cost a LOT" and "no, we won't complete it by 1944-45."; they wisely shelved any further expansion of the Japanese bomb program, though basic research continued at a low level.

In this timeline, with no real pressing need on the Japanese scientists to produce an actual bomb in a few years, the research can be funded to a higher level; and they would be about to inaugurate their first small scale pilot uranium enrichment plant in 1945/46.

Aircraft: Everyone would be looking into the next generation of aircraft to replace the planes that began to enter service in 1941-42.

For example:

The R-2800 Double Wasp was first test run in 1937. This led to the US Navy's Bureau of Aeronautics issuing a contract for new fast fighter aircraft in 1938, with performance levels that were achievable only by using the new 1,800+ horsepower R-2800 type engines on the test beds at the time. This led to the F4U and F6F contracts (the F6F was funded as a backup to the F4U in case it failed). Both planes began to enter service in late 1942.

Not coincidentally...at the same time as the F4U and F6F are entering service, the first R-4360 Wasp Major flies on a testbed aircraft; and offers 3,000 horsepower (it did historically fly in 1942).

This leads the USAAF and USN to start issuing requirements for fighters and bombers to take advantage of the new engine.

However, yes, there is a lack of a shooting war to cause urgency; so perhaps R-4360 powered aircraft are around in small numbers in 1945, and start to really enter service in 1946-47?

It appears to be more of a set-piece war with limited reinforcements, or am I looking at this wrong?

I'm still trying to figure out a historical sequence of events -- the first thing everyone in Japan and the United States do when war breaks out is pass bills calling for more construction -- and with aircraft being much more advanced than in 1941; losses of warships will be statistically higher due to more bombs being dropped; leading to more hits, assuming the percentages of misses remains the same.

[topeverest]

Good stuff...thanks for the information.

[RyanCrierie]

So I've been researching Japanese Shipbuilding plans; and there are quite a few gems:

For example, the Fifth Replenishment Program (Circle Five)....the Navy Ministry expected that it couldn't be started until 1942, and that it would take nine years (until 1950) to finish all 159 units in the plan. [:D]

[RyanCrierie]

There are three yards in Japan that can build ships on the scale of 65,000+ tons:

Kure, Mitsubishi, and Yokosuka.

It takes about 1,000 days to build a Yamato class on the yards; and 90 days to prepare the dock for the next ship; based off historical data (Yamato and Musashi launchings), and the time it took to prepare the shipyard at Kure to lay down Battleship No.110 after Yamato's Launch:

This would be the specific dates for the Japanese SuperBattleship Program:

Yamato (Kure)
Laid down: November 1937
Launched: August 1940
Commissioned: December 1941

Musashi (Mitsubishi)
Laid down: March 1938
Launched: November 1940
Commissioned: August 1942

Shinano (Yokosuka)
Laid down: May 1940
Launched: January 1943
Commissioned: August 1944

No.111 (Kure)
Laid down: 7 November 1940 (was cancelled in Dec '41).
Launched: August 1943
Commissioned: February 1945

No. 797 (Mitsubishi)
Laid down: January 1941
Launched: October 1943
Commissioned: April 1945

-----------------------------------

A-150 (Super Yamato)

No. 798 (Yokosuka)
Laid Down: April 1943
Launched: May 1946
Commissioned: September 1947

No. 799 (Kure)
Laid Down: November 1943
Launched: November 1946
Commissioned: March 1948

[YankeeAirRat]

Ryan,

Let me toss it your scenario this way instead. How about instead of having a shooting war in '41 in the Pacific. Through some better diplomacy the US is able to forestall the Pacific war until 1944. At which time the war in Europe is on its way to being resolved. The Japanese see a chance to strike easily and quickly against a war-weary Western Governments to strike out and sieze what they need to solve thier "China Issue", since thier abilities to buy on credit to feed thier industrial might is being restricted. I would also think that most of the pre-war units would have been either destroyed during the war or phased out, meanwhile those units that would have been out traditionally at this time period are out. Plus, canceled units (such as the Reprise, Montana, Lion, G-class DD's etc) are either going to be commissioned during the course of the war. Air wings of J7W's, Sea Furies, AF's, F8F's, F7F's, Firebrands, A-26's instead of A-20's, B-45's replacing B-24's, F-82's, A7M's, P-80's, FH-1, F9F, etc.
I think it might even be interesting to have the French landing to get thier colonial lands back from the Japanese.

[RyanCrierie]

ORIGINAL: YankeeAirRat

Ryan,

Let me toss it your scenario this way instead. How about instead of having a shooting war in '41 in the Pacific. Through some better diplomacy the US is able to forestall the Pacific war until 1944. At which time the war in Europe is on its way to being resolved.

Factoid:

The Japanese decision to go ahead with the Pearl Harbor attack was far from unanimous.

Several people could have changed their minds at any point and aborted the operation.

The Japanese government was basically divided into two camps in 1941:

"Strike West/North" (deeper into China). Mainly the Army.

"Strike South/Southwest" (towards the Duch East Indies, etc). Mainly the Navy.

There was also a smaller third camp, which basically said that Japan could build itself out of the hole it had found itself in.

The Navy had begun a program to develop synthetic fuels. They established a shale-oil plant in Fushun, Manchuria in 1926, and another plant in 1932 along the Korean/Manchurian border.

They planned to get quite a lot of oil from these sources, but they never really worked out - only getting 10,000 to 11,000 tons a month -- when the Imperial Japanese Navy had calculated it would need 250,000 tons of oil a month to fight a war.

Also, the Navy had begin a stockpiling program. From 1925-1930, the IJN used funds that had been earmarked for naval construction to buy oil instead at about 300-400,000 tons annually. By 1931 they had a stockpile of about 3 million tons...and did not tell the Japanese Army...OR the Japanese government that they had such a stockpile.

It's possible that the Japanese decide instead to follow the Army proposal to strike deeper into China; while the Navy is forced to intensify it's efforts to build the nation out of the hole it was in.

Intensifying the war in China is going to be very deeply unpopular in the United States -- but what is the US going to do about it, besides slapping oil embargoes et al onto the Japanese?

These same oil embargoes are going to be undermined when the Germans and Japanese start applying diplomatic pressure (with no doubt some nearby military exercises) onto the French and Dutch colonies left in that region following the German conquest of Europe -- so the Japanese will be able to get some of the raw materials they need.

Plus, this angle lets you have the German fleet plausibly operating in the Pacific -- so the Japanese player can play with the Tirpitz; something a continued European War won't allow.

A friend of mine on another board also pointed out that with a delayed pacific war -- the IJN can actually scrap some of it's older battleships -- such as the Kongo class, as the Yamato class comes online. Each Kongo class scrapped means about 25,000~ tons of steel at least that can be recycled into the Japanese economy to support new ships or various industrial construction. Additionally, about a thousand crew are freed up by each older battleship going to the breakers. Considering how few trained personnel the Japanese had in many disciplines, this would be a big boost for newer construction.

[RyanCrierie]

When the full breadth of the U.S. Navy's expansion plans became known, the IJN's command staff was in shock. No less than eleven new fast fleet carriers (CV-9 to CV-19) were to be in service by 1944.

Against this, just three Taihos (one from the 1939 Circle Four program, and two from the 1941 Circle Five program) and one Unryu (from Circle Five) were projected to be commissioned by 1944/45.

The initial proposals for the Circle Six Emergency Program had no less than five Taihos to be built to restore parity in aircraft carriers. This fell afoul of the "gun club" in the IJN, who pointed out correctly that each Taiho built would consume at least three thousand tons of armor plate, for a total of 24,000 tons for the whole program.

After much wrangling, an agreement was reached. The Taiho herself would be allowed to proceed to completion, as significant amounts of machinery had been ordered as long lead items; but the remaining two Taihos would be canceled and reordered as Unryu class ships. Additionally, three more Unryus would be ordered.

More Unryus were pushed for by the Navy, but it was again correctly pointed out that even with sufficient armor plate, there were only so many slipyards in Japan which could work on ships in excess of 200 meters. After much more wrangling; it was agreed to switch over three Type A Cruisers (Heavy Cruisers) in the Circle Six Program to Light Fleet Carriers.

This class was designated the Ryukaku class (Thank you to Terminus for the names that he came up with for Reluctant Admiral -- I'm borrowing them for this).

These ships will be similar to the conversion planned/done on CA Ibuki; except it will be more comprehensive -- something along the order of the Cleveland to Independence conversion, rather than the rushjob it was.

Basically, about 31 knots instead of 29; and 37 planes instead of 27; because the Japanese Naval Architects can now take their time to at least design it from the start up as a sort of carrier, rather than having to work around the fact that the ship is substantially complete as a heavy cruiser by the time you begin the conversion.

Some sort of really small and slow (22 knots and maybe 20 planes) ferry would be in the works to replace Hosho -- because having a dedicated aircraft ferry is going to become increasingly useful as planes advance -- instead of having to waste time crating up and then uncrating aircraft from cargo ships, you can simply fly them off a auxilary aircraft ferry deck.

-----

Akagi CV (Getting old like Lex/Sara)
Kaga CV (Getting old like Lex/Sara)

Shokaku Class:
---Shokaku
---Zuikaku

Taiho Class CV
---Taiho (Spring 1944)

Unryu Class CV
---Unryu: Spring 1944
---Amagi: Spring 1944
---Katsuragi
---Kasagi
---Aso

Ryukaku CVL (Thank you to Terminus for the names that he came up with for Reluctant Admiral)
---Ryukaku
---Taikaku
---Hikaku

AUXILARY
Hosho Aircraft Ferry (Old, will be scrapped soon, her replacement is on drawing boards or will commission soon)
Ryujo Aircraft Ferry

[chesmart]

Ryan did you check if AE lets you get past 1946 ? In Witp it was hard coded to end in 1945.

[RyanCrierie]

If all else fails, I can just start it in July 1942 and say: "close your eyes and pretend it's July 1945".

Right now I'm looking at Japanese Cruisers and going:

"Gee, you know, the Oyodos would be great for a helicopter ASW cruiser!"

Stuart Slade:
The Japanese Army used autogyros, the Kayaba Ka-1 as anti-submarine aircraft operating from Japanese Army aircraft carriers. They wre actually quite successful, killing an estimated seven submarines. It's really weird in a way, although the Japanese Navy ASW teams left a lot to be desired in terms of operational competence, the Japanese Army got airborne ASW using the Kayaba done to a pretty fine art. Once a submarine spotted, the Kayaba would hover over it and drop a single depth charge on top of the victim. It was deadly enough that the U.S. submarine would literally never know what hit it. That was why the U.S. Navy was completely unaware of the existance of the Ka-1 until after the war. The Japanese Army also used the Ka-1 for artillery observation and general cooperation duties. They served in the Philippines in 1941/42 and in China. As far as I know, the Japanese were the only people to put autogyros into mass production and use them operationally.

There is some film of the Kayaba Ka-1 HERE

Best part is.....the Ka-1 is already in the game in slot 740!

So.....from looking up the Ka-1; I see it has a mere 240 hp engine. So I'd imagine a Ka-3 or Ka-4 would be in service using a 500 hp engine, allowing it to carry heavier bombs or depth charges.

[John 3rd]

Thanks for having read the RA Thread. I have a headache just thinking of the Editor work you would have to do. Mine was helped by Juan, Red Lancer, and Stanislav jumping and doing portions of the Editing. This project will take forever.

Bringing the German stuff would be fun (I wanted to bring in the U-Boats operating from Sumatra) but will take a bunch of time getting them right.

Good luck. Will gladly be reading and toss in opinions for whatever they are worth.

[RyanCrierie]

D'oh; one of my ideas had a fairly big hole poked in it:

There were going to be two Ibuki class CAs; the second one, which was tentatively named Kurama was canceled 30 June 1942 to free up the slipway at Mitsubishi for Carrier No.5001 (Amagi) of the Unryu class....

So basically, slipways capable of constructing heavy cruisers are also capable of constructing Unryu CVs.

The lack of slipways was a serious problem for the Japanese in planning:

1.) Each Agano CL built at Sasebo was laid down in the same slip as the previous unit.

2.) The Second Ôyodo was severely delayed and then eventually canceled because she would have been laid down using the same slip as Ôyodo; and there were many delays in building Ôyodo. In the end, she was just cancelled, freeing up the slip for Cruiser No.300; which became....CA Ibuki.

[John 3rd]

This is why I expanded several yards within Japan and Shanghai. Paid for them out of starting Japanese supply and fuel. The addition of just one or two cruiser-sized slips would massively help.