Fuel ranges, I think they need a nerf.

[HsojVvad]

The way it is right now, I do not like the range of fuel tanks. I think they are too powerfull. I think the ranges need to be way shorter. I noticed alot of the designs the AI makes has like 2, 3 or more fuel tanks on them. I just don't like the idea of putting 4 fuel tanks on a ship and then it can travel half way or more across the galaxy. If it's a suicide mission then it can travel the whole entire galaxy.

For me, the ranges of fuel tanks should be alot shorter. I believe the prices should be more expensive and mabye be 5 or 10X bigger in size as well. I believe this would decrease the ranges of ships. This way you will need to colonize or put in star bases on other star systems. If you really want to have a ship that is capable of traveling vast distances, you should be paying the price for it.

The way it is now, I can fight a war half way across the galaxy without worry if I can get there or not. It shouldn't be this easy to travel so far. We should have to make some star ports or colonize other worlds so we decrease the distances. In DW we don't really need to do this.

So what do you guys think? How do you like the range of fuel tanks? Do you think they should be nerfed and more expensive? Leave as is? I think they should be more expensive in the begining and in the begining to mid games you can't travel far unless you are willing to pay the price in fuel costs. As it is now, it's not very much. Also when we are researching tech, you would get a better feel of actuallying acomplishing something in getting better fuel. As it is now, why bother researching fuel, since you just add an extra tank and you can travel a heck of a lot farther.

Wish i could have made this into a poll.

Is there a way in the editor to change this? At least if other people don't want nothing changed, i can change it in the editor then.

[Spacecadet]

Maybe I haven't got the tech yet, but I'm having issues even getting my fleets fueled at starbases.

When you get into a battle, you're consuming fuel fairly quickly for weaponry, so by the time you jump there you're at somewhat of a disadvantage already.

There may be a tech that takes care of this (fuel for weapons). If there is then I haven't seen it yet.

So, from my current perspective, I think the fuel requirements should be nerfed a little, not the capacity.

[Interesting]

I disagree.

Fuel is not only for "travel". Fuel is what we use in the reactors for firing weapons and moving faster than normal while in combat.

Active energy payment comes from fuel. That "secondary" use for fuel is in reality, especially for military ships, "primary". As you spend much more fuel firing weapons than moving around.

[HsojVvad]

Ok, I understand we need fuel to fire the lazers and weapons, but maybe the range of travel needs to be nerfed then. I wasn't thinking about using fuel for weapons, but for travel. I find the travel distances way to long. So instead of nerfing the fuel then, maybe the ranges needed to be nerfed. I totally forgot that we need fuel for combat and it gets drained really quickly. I am talking more about the distances you can travel.

[2ndACR]

Slap an energy collector on your warships and then they will not burn fuel just sitting there.

[JosEPhII]

I thought Energy collectors Had to be part of the ship design!?

Otherwise certain components don't have any energy to work with.

Silly me. [X(]

JosEPh

[HsojVvad]

I am not talking about how fuel is used up so fast. What I am talking about is that you can travel from one end of the galaxy to the other side of the galaxy even at the begining of the game just because you have enough fuel tanks. I can see adding lots of fuel so you don't run out so fast, but I don't think a ship should be able to fight a battle across the galaxy in the begining of the game. You almost don't have to build bases or colonize planets to get closer to the enemy to attack.

That is what I didn't like about MOO3, you can be as far from your empire and not worry about it. Maybe range should involve habitation instead of fuel or more likely lifesupport This way you can't travel so far without all the food and water and what not. The ranges should be based on lifesupport as far or how long a mission can last on a ship before it needs to come back and resupply.

I liked on how MOO2, you needed Outposts to increase your range if you wanted to travel farther to explore or attack your enemy. Destroy the out post and you decrease your enemies range of attack. This is why I want to see the range of ships decreased. I am shure it is based on the number of fuel tanks you have.

I guess it's just me then. I love the idea on how we use fuel in DW, I just don't like how it increases your range as well. I just wish the distance a ship can travel is not so big as it is now. I would think if the ranges were cut in half or more would make researching better fuel types and making colonies to increase your range more tactiaclly in the game.

[Astorax]

ORIGINAL: JosEPh_II


I thought Energy collectors Had to be part of the ship design!?

Otherwise certain components don't have any energy to work with.

Silly me. [X(]

JosEPh

Joseph, not exactly. Energy Collectors are extra energy sources over and above the reactor (which is all you *have* to have). They are not required on any vessel at all. They are quite helpful on ships that remain at rest for extended periods because energy collectors only work when your ship is still (well and there is available ambient energy). Good on mining/gas mining ships, bases and military ships because most of the time they sit doing nothing. Just put enough to cover the static energy reqs and you are good to go.

Edit: Oh, I forgot, when you have enough energy collectors to cover the static energy reqs, the reactor won't use its own fuel to make energy thus saving you fuel.

[HsojVvad]

I find just having one energy collector is enough on military ships that sit idle doing nothing, but waiting for pirates or the enemy.

[madpainter]

ORIGINAL: Davor
I guess it's just me then. I love the idea on how we use fuel in DW, I just don't like how it increases your range as well. I just wish the distance a ship can travel is not so big as it is now. I would think if the ranges were cut in half or more would make researching better fuel types and making colonies to increase your range more tactiaclly in the game.

Its not just you, no matter how large a map I play on it still feels small, I want to have to specifically design a ship for going from one side of the galaxy to the other. Not just take it for granted that I can reach.
How to fix it is another matter, I think life support should be a factor in the range some how.

[Fishman]

ORIGINAL: madpainter

Its not just you, no matter how large a map I play on it still feels small

The "size" of the map has no effect on the actual size of it, only the density of the stars. The actual physical dimensions of the map do not change based on how many stars you pick.

[HsojVvad]

The thing is, if playing on a 700 star map or a 100 star map, the 700 star map feels even smaller because you still reach the same distance, because the playing field is the same as Fishman says. It might be better if the ranges of the ships also decreased with the number of stars in the galaxy. This would also increase the size of the galaxy without increasing the physical dimensions.

But still 100 stars or 700 star or even 1200 stars, I don't think we should be able to travel that far. I think life support should somehow really indicate how far you can travel. It's like going for a long trip in a car, you can have a full tank, but you have to eventually stop to eat and sleep. If you don't have enough food to eat, you can't travel so far no matter how much gas you have in the car. Again, maybe having more in maintenance costs could have something to do how far a ship can travel. Again I don't know how to impliment this, but maybe it can jog somebodies else's mind and they will have a good idea how to do it.

[lordxorn]

Maybe the way way around this is to separate the fuel into just being used for weapons and such. Then only allow your ships to travel so far from any colony, based on your technology level which should be expensive to research. Much like the Moo2 method.

[Fishman]

I propose an alternate solution: If a ship gets shot down too far away from any of its colonies, there is no diplomatic penalty because they never hear back from it. I mean, space is dangerous. Stuff gets lost all the time. We had nothing, I repeat, nothing, to do with it.

[Dadekster]

I agree with limiting ship ranges some more. In just my first game I was surprised at how far a stock ship was able to go. Once you throw on some more fuel storage I was really surprised. Made me wonder what in the world I would need to R&D any kind of fuel techs for since the stuff out the gate seemed to be just fine. Maybe have something like a solar sail which gives great range but really restricts other fittings (guns etc) while your regular ships still rely on fuel for travel and combat?

[FerretStyle]

This has less to do with fuel tanks being overpowered and more to do with the fact that you can load up your ship with anything at all with no restrictions.

[Fishman]

I don't really think the ship ranges are even really a problem: It's one thing to be able to send a ship out there to the middle of nowhere, it's another thing to be able to do anything useful once you're there. Other than Explorers, is there really any reason why you would WANT to be out there?

[HsojVvad]

ORIGINAL: Fishman

I don't really think the ship ranges are even really a problem: It's one thing to be able to send a ship out there to the middle of nowhere, it's another thing to be able to do anything useful once you're there. Other than Explorers, is there really any reason why you would WANT to be out there?

Well if someone declares war on me, then I can go out and attack them then. But for this to happen, it shouldn't be so easy to do so.

I guess on the flip side though, I can see this makes it easier for the AI. yes they declare war on you but then they don't attack if they can't reach you. Hmm maybe make it an option where the AI uses the rules as it is now, but for the human player they have the restrictions. I would be happy with this. But it has to be optional for people who don't like it.

[Wicky]

Well I am happy with fuel tanks as they are now.
Because it just takes a few clicks to add extra fuel tanks on your ships and you never have to worry about. This is a major issue in a game that complex, that you don't have to worry about fuel tanks when managing an empire with 140 colonies and 800+ military ships. If you have to argue about fuel ranges beeing unlogical, then do it after patch 1.09 has been released. Thank you!!!

[drillerman]

What does "nerf" mean?[&:]