AF Oerloaded?

[ETF]

OK sorry at work. Do the float planes count against the 25 engines per field level. When do I get an unlimited sized allowed. Is that a 9-10 AF?
Is it me or is the 25 planes per level seem realistic to you?

[Misconduct]

Level 9 AF is unlimited, not even level 8 - must be level 9. All engines count against the AF. I don't believe its 25 engines per field, I know for fact its 50 total engines per field.

[ETF]

oh ok thanks so 50 planes per level? I know that was the case in Witp...same with AE then?
Thanks

[Sredni]

I find myself running up against the 1 airgroup per field level more often then the engines per field level. Wish I could condense all these little tiny 3 and 6 and 12 plane airgroups scattered all over the map.

[ETF]

Ya I think it must have been a play balance thing. Doesn't seem all that realistic from what I have read on the Pacific IMHO.

[bradfordkay]

Keep in mind that it is one "active" air unit per field level. Training units don't count towards this.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Keep in mind that it is one "active" air unit per field level. Training units don't count towards this.

thought units on training count as 1/3? Has this been changed?

[Charbroiled]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Keep in mind that it is one "active" air unit per field level. Training units don't count towards this.

thought units on training count as 1/3? Has this been changed?

It is my understanding that units that are training, Seaplanes, and fragments all count a 1 unit...combined.

From patch 1.0095:
84. Gameplay Change: Any seaplane, rest/training and/or fragment group counts as ONE group for Admin stacking purposes; the presence of all three in a base counted as 3 groups for Admin

[bradfordkay]

So, I am to understand from this that if I have three (or five) PBY squadrons at a base, they will count as one group for administrative purposes?  If I have seven various groups under training then they will count as one group administratively? 

[Charbroiled]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

So, I am to understand from this that if I have three (or five) PBY squadrons at a base, they will count as one group for administrative purposes?  If I have seven various groups under training then they will count as one group administratively? 

The way I read it is: If I had (x) amount of PBy units + (x) amount of units on training + (x) amount of fragments of units = 1 group at the base.

[bradfordkay]

ORIGINAL: Charbroiled

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Keep in mind that it is one "active" air unit per field level. Training units don't count towards this.

thought units on training count as 1/3? Has this been changed?

It is my understanding that units that are training, Seaplanes, and fragments all count a 1 unit...combined.

From patch 1.0095:
84. Gameplay Change: Any seaplane, rest/training and/or fragment group counts as ONE group for Admin stacking purposes; the presence of all three in a base counted as 3 groups for Admin

Ahhh!!!! "counted" ... now it no longer does so.

[Alfred]

Ok guys, let's get this straight once and for all.

Assume you have a size 8 airbase with no relevant HQ within range, hence the admin overstacking applies if you have more than 8 units present. Located at this airbase are:


1 fighter unit
1 torpedo bomber unit
1 dive bomber unit
1 4E bomber unit
1 2E bomber unit
3 patrol units
2 fragments (left behind after parent transferred)
4 miscellaneous units conducting 100% training

This list gives you a total of 14 units. However for administrative calculations you are not overstacked because administratively you only have one each of the following:

fighter unit
torpedo bomber
divebomber
4E bomber
2E bomber
patrol
fragment
training

Alfred

[Charbroiled]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Ok guys, let's get this straight once and for all.

Assume you have a size 8 airbase with no relevant HQ within range, hence the admin overstacking applies if you have more than 8 units present. Located at this airbase are:


1 fighter unit
1 torpedo bomber unit
1 dive bomber unit
1 4E bomber unit
1 2E bomber unit
3 patrol units
2 fragments (left behind after parent transferred)
4 miscellaneous units conducting 100% training

This list gives you a total of 14 units. However for administrative calculations you are not overstacked because administratively you only have one each of the following:

fighter unit
torpedo bomber
divebomber
4E bomber
2E bomber
patrol
fragment
training

Alfred

If the fighter unit/torpedo bomber/dive bomber/4e/and 2e units are doing combat missions, this is a total of 5 units.

Plus 1 unit which included Patrol (has to be seaplane)/Fragments/training units.

So, at this size 8 AF, you have a total of 6 air groups/units in regards to staking. Not over stacked.

However, there is a 50 engines per AF size limit also...or in this case 8 X 50 = 400 engines. I don't think the engine limit matters what the mission or type of plane is.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Charbroiled

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Ok guys, let's get this straight once and for all.

Assume you have a size 8 airbase with no relevant HQ within range, hence the admin overstacking applies if you have more than 8 units present. Located at this airbase are:


1 fighter unit
1 torpedo bomber unit
1 dive bomber unit
1 4E bomber unit
1 2E bomber unit
3 patrol units
2 fragments (left behind after parent transferred)
4 miscellaneous units conducting 100% training

This list gives you a total of 14 units. However for administrative calculations you are not overstacked because administratively you only have one each of the following:

fighter unit
torpedo bomber
divebomber
4E bomber
2E bomber
patrol
fragment
training

Alfred

If the fighter unit/torpedo bomber/dive bomber/4e/and 2e units are doing combat missions, this is a total of 5 units.

Plus 1 unit which included Patrol (has to be seaplane)/Fragments/training units.

So, at this size 8 AF, you have a total of 6 air groups/units in regards to staking. Not over stacked.

However, there is a 50 engines per AF size limit also...or in this case 8 X 50 = 400 engines. I don't think the engine limit matters what the mission or type of plane is.

No, you still don't get it.

The single fighter/torpedo/dive bomber/4E/2E units in aggregate represent a total of 5 units for administrative purposes.

When AE first came out the 3 patrol/2 fragment/4 training which I gave for illustrative purposes, in aggregate represented an additional 9 units for administrative purposes. However following a patch, those units, for the purposes of the administrative overstacking rules, are treated as only an additional 3 units - 1 patrol + 1 fragments + 1 training.

Alfred

[Charbroiled]

ORIGINAL: Alfred


No, you still don't get it.

The single fighter/torpedo/dive bomber/4E/2E units in aggregate represent a total of 5 units for administrative purposes.

When AE first came out the 3 patrol/2 fragment/4 training which I gave for illustrative purposes, in aggregate represented an additional 9 units for administrative purposes. However following a patch, those units, for the purposes of the administrative overstacking rules, are treated as only an additional 3 units - 1 patrol + 1 fragments + 1 training.

Alfred

Well, you could be right, but that isn't how I read this:

From patch 1.0095:

84. Gameplay Change: Any seaplane, rest/training and/or fragment group counts as ONE group for Admin stacking purposes; the presence of all three in a base counted as 3 groups for Admin

With the inclusion of "and/or" it seem to mean that any seaplane AND rest/training AND fragment counts as ONE group.

If it was 1 group for each type, I would think they would have stuck with just "or". plus the ending comment "the presence of all three in a base counted as 3 groups for Admin" seams to imply past tense with "counted"...meaning that all seaplanes were considered 1 group before the patch....All rest/training were considers another group before the patch...and all fragments were considered another group before the patch.

However, I have been wrong before, so I know what it feels like.[:D]

Maybe a designer could clarify.

[foliveti]

Does ASW count as a separate group or is that part of the patrol training combo?

[Alfred]

Charbroiled,

I agree that the note is a bit ambiuous. However I am 100% confident of what I posted because one of the developers subsequently clarified the issue.

Alfred

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: foliveti

Does ASW count as a separate group or is that part of the patrol training combo?

Not quite certain what you mean but for the admin overstacking purposes, a patrol plane is a patrol plane, what it does is not relevant. Think of patrol plane groups as "float equipped" - and "float equipped" planes which operate on coastal hexes have some different rules compared to tarmac bound planes.

Alfred

[Charbroiled]

In my game against the AI, I have 3 bombers units doing bomber missions, 1 fighter unit providing escort, 3 fragments, and 2 fighter in training at a Lever 4 AF with no air HQ in range and I have never had any indication that the AF was overloaded.

By your calculations, this is 5 air units and the base should be overloaded.

[Charbroiled]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: foliveti

Does ASW count as a separate group or is that part of the patrol training combo?

Not quite certain what you mean but for the admin overstacking purposes, a patrol plane is a patrol plane, what it does is not relevant. Think of patrol plane groups as "float equipped" - and "float equipped" planes which operate on coastal hexes have some different rules compared to tarmac bound planes.

Alfred

I agree with your premise, but the rule doesn't say "patrol plane", it says "Seaplane"...2 different things, I think.[&:]