Will ammo ships suddenly explode?

[MKSheppard]

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-u ... ae11-k.htm

USS Mount Hood, a 13910-ton ammunition ship, was
built at Wilmington, North Carolina, and converted for
Naval service at Norfolk, Virginia. Commissioned in
July 1944, she transited the Panama Canal in August
and was assigned to the South Pacific area to provide
ammunition to the fighting forces. On the morning of
10 November 1944, while she was moored at the
Manus Naval Base, Admiralty Islands, Mount Hood's
cargo of explosives detonated in a massive blast.
The ship was utterly destroyed by the accident, which
killed all those on board her. Damage and casualties
were also inflicted on ships anchored as far as 2000
yards away. Personnel casualties on Mount Hood
and on other vessels totalled 45 known dead, 327
missing and 371 injured.



And didn't a Japanese Battleship suddenly explode one day
during the war?

EDIT: The Jap BBs name was the IJN Mutsu. She blew up on:

http://www.combinedfleet.com/Mutsu.html
8 June 1943:

The MUTSU is moored at the flagship buoy midway
between Hashirajima and the Suo-Oshima islands about
two miles SW of Hashirajima. She hosts 113 flying cadets
and 40 instructors of the Tsuchiura Naval Air Group who
are aboard for a familiarization tour.

Captain Tsuruoka's FUSO is moored about 1,100 yards
SW of the MUTSU. DesRon 11’s flagship, the light cruiser
TATSUTA and several of the squadron’s newly commissioned
destroyers are moored more distantly south of Hashirajima.

1145: After lunch, the MUTSU’s deck crew prepares to move
to mooring buoy No. 2 because the NAGATO is expected to
return at about 1300 from Kure after being drydocked.
There is heavy fog and visibility is down to 500 yards.

The MUTSU's magazines contain a full load of ammunition
including 16.1-inch Type 3 "Sanshikidan" incendiary shells designed as anti-aircraft rounds. Each shell weighs
2,064-lbs. and contains 1,200 submunitions. Each
turret magazine contains 240 shells (120 per gun),
including 50 "sanshiki-dans."

1213: Suddenly, the MUTSU’s No. 3 turret’s magazine
explodes. Vice Admiral Shimizu, Commander of the
First Fleet, a few miles away aboard the NAGATO sees
a brilliant white explosion. Shortly thereafter, he
receives a coded message from the FUSO’s Captain Tsuruoka.
It says: "The MUTSU blew up!"

Sunk: The MUTSU breaks in two. The 535-ft forward
section collapses to starboard, sinks quickly and lies on
the pagoda mast on the floor of the bay. The 147-ft stern
section upends, but remains floating.

The FUSO immediately launches two of her Vedette boats.
Her crew rescues 353 survivors of the 1,474 crewmembers
aboard the MUTSU. Only 13 of the visiting flying cadets/instructors
are among the survivors. The IJN can ill-afford the loss of
140 instructors and pilot trainees, particularly after the
heavy losses sustained in April in Operation "I-Go" during
the reinforcement of the 11th Air Fleet at Rabaul.

[Erik Rutins]

Can you imagine the post we'd get in the bug forum if a battleship suddenly blew up while docked and sank? Hoo-boy.

Regards,

- Erik

[WW2'er]

Wow! Very interesting.

Are you suggesting Mr. Grigsby should add a VERY small percentage chance of ships suddenly experiencing 100% system, flotation, and fire damage?

[MKSheppard]

Originally posted by WW2'er
Wow! Very interesting.

Are you suggesting Mr. Grigsby should add a VERY small percentage chance of ships suddenly experiencing 100% system, flotation, and fire damage?

Why not? It'd make the game more interesting. And by small
percentage, make it really really really tiny, like less than 0.01%
of happening, and when it does happen, treat it like a combat
screen, instead of it magically blowing up by itself....

AAR for 5/5/42

DD MONTAUK; Ammunition Explosion; heavy damage..../

[Scouters]

"Can you imagine the post we'd get in the bug forum if a battleship suddenly blew up while docked and sank? Hoo-boy"


That wouldn't be a bug - it would be a patch feature!


ANNOUNCEMENT
UV Patch v1.15 now adds low-probability random events such as: catastrophic ship explosions, mutinies and defections, abduction of senior officers by aliens, space/time rifts...


and....


G O D Z I L L A -- E A T S -- R A B A U L ! ! !

-Scouters

[Erik Rutins]

>> G O D Z I L L A E A T S R A B A U L ! ! !

ROFL! You know, there are a few games where I've played the allies that I'd really love that option.

Remember the old Sim City where you could, when you got bored, generate a "natural disaster" (like Godzilla) to come and play with your community? Hehe. Hmmm.

Regards,

- Erik

[Nikademus]

Originally posted by Erik Rutins
Can you imagine the post we'd get in the bug forum if a battleship suddenly blew up while docked and sank? Hoo-boy.

Regards,

- Erik

Actually i can imagine it.......unfortunately its not fit to be posted here so i'll leave it in my imagination and marvel at it's mastery of the English language. :p


In answer to the general question. UV by necessity has to abstract supplies a bit. How would the game engine distinquish between a ship loaded to the gills with ammo, and one filled with K-rations? Overall i think the engine handles AP/AK interactions fairly well. Most struck by torps go down though i wonder if the Allied DC advantage should exclude merchantmen?

As for warship vs warship combat. Gary did have a routine for a potential magazine (ammo) explosion, in the orig tactical game it was 1% per main battery device (turret) hit, in his sequal, it was variable depending on damage control rating. Since OV is operational level and DL level is only simmed via a "realism" setting giving the Allies a better chance for repairs, the former 1% factor would probably be the better choice.

Bomb and torpedo hits of course already have this though along with fuel explosion hits, does not seem to be as potentially devastating as it might be.

[von Murrin]

Originally posted by Scouters
and....


G O D Z I L L A -- E A T S -- R A B A U L ! ! !

ROTFL!!!

I just snorted coke out my nose!

[Admiral DadMan]

Originally posted by Nikademus
How would the game engine distinquish between a ship loaded to the gills with ammo, and one filled with K-rations?

Combustible K-rats? Sounds like a frat house food fight...

I keep picturing John Belushi jumping up and yelling, "FOOD FIGHT!!!"

[dgaad]

A future post :


Hey, WitP is a creat game, but there are a few problems.

One is, I have these ships called AS. I don't know what that means. Okay, well, it says Ammo Supply ship in the printed manual, but what does that? Mean? I mean, does it supply ammo to ports and airbases? Or what?

Anyway, these AS ships seem like they help the other side more than me. Because I got a combat report that said "AS Shingano blows up in Truk"

After that, I got two more messages that other of my ships were damaged in Truk. There weren't any American attacks or subs anywhere at all ever.

This sucks. Why have ships if they are going to blow up? Why can't I load ammunition on other ships that don't blow up? I was real careful for my whole game, but I am punished by the AS ships. Its just not fair, thats all.

--- Signed, Klooless

[JohnK]

Originally posted by Scouters

G O D Z I L L A -- E A T S -- R A B A U L ! ! !

Screw Godzilla, what we need is a .00000001% chance per day that Rabaul Caldera erupts, destroying everything in Rabaul.......

"Rabaul Caldera has been the source of many voluminous explosive eruptions in the past few hundred thousand years. Reliable dates are available for two such eruptions within the past 3,500 years. A caldera-modifying eruption about 3,500 yr b .P. produced primarily rhyolite but may have been triggered by an injection of basalt (Walker and others, 1981). A large eruption of dacitic magma roughly 1,400 yr B.P. may have resulted in further caldera collapse, perhaps of an inner caldera inferred from bathymetry and from recent seismicity. Postcaldera volcanics at Tavurvur, Sulphur Creek, and Rabalanakaia range from basalt to dacite; those a t Vulcan and Davapia Rocks are dacite. The vent for the 3,500 yr B.P. eruption may have been in the north or northeast part of the present caldera (J. Mori, 198 8); the vent for the 1,400 yr B.P. eruption may have been near the center of the caldera (Walker and others, 1981). Both the 3,500 and 1,400 yr B.P. eruptions " began with small scale explosions... produced small-volume pyroclastic deposits... (and then) activity built up rather quickly to a climax" (Walker and others, 1981). "Rather quickly" in this context means only that there is no geologic evidence for a time gap between the small-scale and larger scale deposits, although Walker speculates that the gaps may have been as short as a few hours. Consideration of repose periods between large explosive eruptions at Rabaul suggests that another might occur in the geologically near future (McKee and others, 1985). "


They had a terrible eruption in 1994, not the whole Caldera; they were fortunate that the entire town was evacuated due to timely warnings.

[sbond]

327 missing....... *shiver*

[dgaad]

Undefined attack on Rabaul at 21,28

Undefined
Godzilla x 1
Baby Godzilla x 1

Japanese Aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 42
A6M3 Zero x 11

Undefined losses


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 38 destroyed
A6M3 Zero x 9 destroyed
A6M2 Zero x 8 damaged
A6M3 Zero x 3 damaged


WO H.Shibata of DI-1 Daitai is INCINERATED
CPO J.Kawasaki of DI-1 Daitai is INCINERATED
PO2 T.Oda of BI-1 Daitai is INCINERATED

Japanese Ships
CV Zuikaku, Radioactive Breath hits x 18, and is sunk
CV Junyo, Radioactive Baby Godzilla Ring Breath hits x 3, on fire, heavy damage
SS I-27, Godzilla Foot Stomp hits x 2, and is sunk

Airbase supply hits x 81
Runway hits x 487
Port supply hits x 14
Port hits x 18



Godzilla Sound Effect

Baby Godzilla Sound Effect

[JohnK]

I'm worried that the Japanese would get GAMERA as a reinforcement in Truk after Godzilla showed up.

Gamera is friend to all children!

And given those four jet engines in his shell, I shudder to think of the amazing maneuver rating Gamera would get.

[Henri]

In 1917, the Mont blanc, a French ammunition ship, exploded in Halifax Harbor in Canada following a collision with another ship. The ship anchor was found more than 5 miles away. Here is a quote from the many web sites for the incident. a large part of the city of Halifax was destroyed.

"The largest man made explosion prior to testing of atomic bombs occurred in The Narrows, when after collision with the Imo, the explosive wartime cargo aboard the Mont Blanc detonated. This resulted in the deaths of 2000 people and the mass destruction of northend Halifax. Contrary to popular belief, no crater was formed by the explosion. Pieces of the Mont Blanc are believed to remain on the seabed of The Narrows."

Henri

[dgaad]

And, prior to that, the largest man made explosion was the detonation of the Petersburg Mine in 1864.

"In Potter's division of the 9th corps was the 48th Pa., a
Regiment made up chiefly of miners from Schuylkill county and
commanded by Lieut.-Col. Henry Pleasants, who was a practical
mining engineer. After the assault of the 18th the men of
this regiment began discussing the feasibility of running a
mine under the enemy's works, and the plan was finally
proposed by Pleasants to Burnside, who gave the project his
unqualified approval and gained Meade's consent to it. The
portion of the works to be mined was known as Elliott's
salient, being occupied by Elliott's brigade of Bushrod
Johnson's division and was near the center of the line on the
east side of the city. With no tools but the pick and shovel
the Pennsylvanians excavated a main gallery 522 feet in length
with lateral galleries 37 and 38 feet long running under and
nearly parallel to the enemy's works, the earth taken from the
tunnel being carried out in cracker boxes. The work was
commenced on June 25, and on July 27 the mine was charged with
8,000 pounds of powder which was placed in eight magazines of
1,000 pounds each. On the 26th Burnside reported his plan for
an assault to follow immediately upon the explosion of the
mine. This plan contemplated the placing of Ferrero's
division in the advance, because his other divisions had been
under a heavy fire, day and night, for more than a month,
while the colored troops had been held as a reserve. This
selection was not approved by Meade and Grant, partly for the
reason that it might be charged they were willing to sacrifice
the negro soldiers by pushing them forward and partly because
Ferrero's division had never been in close contact with the
enemy and it was not known how they would conduct themselves
in such an emergency, though the men had been drilling for
several weeks for the work, and were not only willing but
anxious for the undertaking. A division was then selected by
lot, and it fell to Gen. Ledlie to lead the assault. This was
Burnside's weakest division and was commanded by a man whom
Gen. Humphreys, Meade's chief of staff, characterizes as "an
officer whose total unfitness for such a duty ought to have
been known to Gen. Burnside, though it is not possible that it
could have been. It was not known to Gen. Meade."

On the 29th an order was issued from headquarters
providing that "At half past three in the morning of the 30th,
Maj.-Gen. Burnside will spring his mine, and his assaulting
columns will immediately move rapidly upon the breach, seize
the crest in the rear and effect a lodgment there. He will be
followed by Maj.-Gen. Ord (now in command of the 18th corps),
who will support him on the right, directing his movement to
the crest indicated, and by Maj.-Gen. Warren who will support
him on the left. Upon the explosion of the mine the artillery
of all kinds in battery will open upon those points of the
enemy's works whose fire covers the ground over which our
columns must move, care being taken to avoid impeding the
progress of our troops. Special instructions respecting the
direction of the fire will be issued through the Chief of
Artillery."

At the appointed time Ledlie's division was in position
in two lines, Marshall's brigade in front and Bartlett's in
the rear, ready to charge into the breach the moment the mine
was sprung. Four o'clock came and still no explosion.
Officers and men who had been in a state of feverish
expectancy since shortly after midnight, began to grow
restless. An officer was sent to Burnside to inquire the
cause of the delay, and it was learned that the fuse had died
out Lieut. Jacob Douty and Sergt. Henry Rees volunteered to
enter the gallery and reignite the fuse. Their efforts were
crowned with success though they had barely emerged from the
mouth of the mine at 4:45 when the explosion took place. A
solid mass of earth, mingled with timbers, dismantled cannon
and human beings, rose 200 feet in the air, and where
Elliott's salient had stood was a ragged crater 170 feet long,
60 wide and 30 feet deep, filled with dust and debris.
Immediately the Federal artillery-about 160 guns and mortars-
opened fire and as soon as the dust had cleared away
Marshall's line advanced closely followed by Bartlett's, but
the men could not resist the temptation to crowd forward to
look into the hole, and the two brigades became hopelessly
mixed. When the explosion occurred the Confederates hurried
away from the intrenchments for 200 or 300 yards on either
side of the mine, but the confusion of Ledlie's men and the
delay in restoring something like order gave the enemy time to
recover from his bewilderment, so that when the Union troops
attempted to cross the crater they were met by a fire of
musketry, straggling at first but increasing in effectiveness
until at the end of half an hour the two brigades were huddled
in a confused mass in the hole, unable to advance or withdraw.
Gen. Humphreys says: "Gen. Ledlie did not accompany, much less
lead, his division. He remained, according to the testimony
before the Court of Inquiry that followed, in a bomb-proof
about 50 yards inside our intrenchments, from which he could
see nothing that was going on. He could not have given the
instructions he received to his brigade commanders. Had the
division advanced in column of attack, led by a resolute,
intelligent commander, it would have gained the crest in
fifteen minutes after the explosion, and before any serious
opposition could have been made to it."

Willcox sent in part of a brigade on the left of the
mine, halting the remainder of his command until Ledlie's men
should advance. He was criticized by the court of inquiry for
not making efforts "commensurate with the occasion to carry
out Gen. Burnside's order to advance to Cemetery Hill."
Ferrero moved in the rear of Willcox and upon reaching the
most advanced line of the Federal works was compelled to halt
on account of other troops occupying the position assigned to
him. After some delay he was ordered to advance and carry the
crest beyond the crater and was moving forward for that
purpose when he was directed to halt. All seemed to be
confusion, for in a little while the order to advance was
renewed. By this time the enemy had strengthened his position
on the hill and when Ferrero tried to carry it he failed. His
colored troops established their valor, however, as in his
report Ferrero says : "They were repulsed, but veterans could
hardly have stood the fire to which they were exposed." At
6:30 orders were again sent to the division commanders not to
halt at the works, but to advance at once to the crest without
waiting for mutual support. Potter had moved his division
forward by the flank soon after Ledlie began his advance.
Upon reaching the vicinity of the mine Griffin's brigade
turned to the right, took possession of the intrenchments
which the Confederates had abandoned and began an attack upon
Elliott's troops which were forced back after a long and
severe contest. The other brigade attacked on the right of
Griffin but was repulsed. The support of Ord and Warren did
not come up to the expectations and at 9:15, after four hours
of desultory fighting, Burnside received a peremptory order to
withdraw his troops from the enemy's lines and cease offensive
operations. This order was sent into the crater with
instructions to the brigade commanders to consult and
determine as to the time and manner of retiring. They sent
back a request that a heavy fire of artillery and infantry
should be opened to cover the withdrawal, but before the
messenger reached Burnside the enemy made another attack and
the men fell back in some disorder,.leaving the wounded to
fall into the hands of the Confederates. The Union loss on
the 30th was 419 killed, 1,679 wounded and 1,910 missing.
Marshall and Bartlett were both captured and 23 regimental
commanders were reported either killed, wounded or missing.
On the Confederate side the loss in Elliott's brigade was 677,
and as Weisinger's brigade lost about as heavily the total
casualties among the enemy numbered probably not far from
1,000, most of whom were killed or wounded, as but few
prisoners were taken by the Federals."

[sedecula]

My father was a sailor on the CVE Marcus Island. They stopped at Manus and were given the all clear to swim and dive from their ship. Looking around, they noticed many body parts still floating in the lagoon from the Mt. Hood explosion. Needless to say, they didn't feel much like swimming (or eating) after that.