Attack on PH

[PrinzvonEgan]

I want to try this game. BUT, every pacific war game I've ever tried cannot recreate in any way shape or form the attack on PH. In my mind, this is the essential question as to whether the game is actually playable. Can KB attack PH and actually achieve devestating results? Prinz von Egan

[Chickenboy]

[Channeling Terminus mode ON] YES. [Channeling Terminus mode OFF]

[ckk]

Or you can start your game December 8th with Dec 7th IRL results already applied[;)]

ORIGINAL: PrinzvonEgan

I want to try this game. BUT, every pacific war game I've ever tried cannot recreate in any way shape or form the attack on PH. In my mind, this is the essential question as to whether the game is actually playable. Can KB attack PH and actually achieve devestating results? Prinz von Egan

[PrinzvonEgan]

I think I'd like to try the attack, and then hang around and keep on hitting and hunting. How does that work out? Von Ege 

[Kitakami]

It is possible, but losses to your carrier air arm will mount. Is it worth it? Depends. Victory point-wise, yes. Strategically? I am not sure.
2 BBs sunk, and 3-6 BBs damaged is a very likely result in the initial PH attack. More than destroying additional BBs in the following days, though, I'd love to catch one of the US CVs on the way back (also doable, if the Allied player does not run far enough).

This is a gamer of move and counter move. A good Allied player will not place his CVs in harm's way, and would probably accept the exchange of your excellent naval aviators for a few more old BBs sunk.

[jimh009]

ORIGINAL: PrinzvonEgan

I want to try this game. BUT, every pacific war game I've ever tried cannot recreate in any way shape or form the attack on PH. In my mind, this is the essential question as to whether the game is actually playable. Can KB attack PH and actually achieve devestating results? Prinz von Egan

Boy, every game I've played against the AI the PH attack ends up being worse for the Allies, even after one strike. First game I ever played 5 BB's went down on the first strike, then 1 more on the next strike. I actually don't think PH has escaped any game I've played with less damage than what happened in real life. Only if the Japanese stick around for just one strike and get "unlucky" with the weather or something "out of the ordinary" on Dec. 7th do the Allies have any hope of sustaining significantly less damage than in the real war.

That said, if you want the historical result, just start play from Dec. 8th.

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: jimh009


Boy, every game I've played against the AI the PH attack ends up being worse for the Allies, even after one strike. First game I ever played 5 BB's went down on the first strike, then 1 more on the next strike. I actually don't think PH has escaped any game I've played with less damage than what happened in real life. Only if the Japanese stick around for just one strike and get "unlucky" with the weather or something "out of the ordinary" on Dec. 7th do the Allies have any hope of sustaining significantly less damage than in the real war.

That said, if you want the historical result, just start play from Dec. 8th.

I'm with you Jim...., I've NEVER had a result that wasn't worse for the Allies than the actual PH raid. And that's before KB hangs around for a couple of days.

[Chickenboy]

Both of my existing PBEMs had the US Fleet at Pearl get off unscratched. Full stop. The USN did much better than historically at Pearl.

ETA: That's because I hammered Manila back into the stone ages.

But to the OP point about the game: you can produce different opening moves that differ from the expected first turn Pearl Harbor outcome. Stick around or leave? Pearl or Manila? It's totally up to you.

[Atilla60]

In my current PBEM I started out by striking Pearl on December 7. and again on December 10.
Result:
1 Light cruiser & 1 minelayer sunk - must be the worst result ever.

Oh, and I even had a midget sub hammering a torpedo into BB Maryland.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

ORIGINAL: jimh009


Boy, every game I've played against the AI the PH attack ends up being worse for the Allies, even after one strike. First game I ever played 5 BB's went down on the first strike, then 1 more on the next strike. I actually don't think PH has escaped any game I've played with less damage than what happened in real life. Only if the Japanese stick around for just one strike and get "unlucky" with the weather or something "out of the ordinary" on Dec. 7th do the Allies have any hope of sustaining significantly less damage than in the real war.

That said, if you want the historical result, just start play from Dec. 8th.

I'm with you Jim...., I've NEVER had a result that wasn't worse for the Allies than the actual PH raid. And that's before KB hangs around for a couple of days.

in my ongoing PBEM as the Allied, the PH attack looked devastating and KB left after one day (probably because my opponent thought the same as me, everything is sunk anyway) but from day two on, all flt damage was going down, not one BB lost.

[hunchback77]

ORIGINAL: Atilla60

In my current PBEM I started out by striking Pearl on December 7. and again on December 10.
Result:
1 Light cruiser & 1 minelayer sunk - must be the worst result ever.

Oh, and I even had a midget sub hammering a torpedo into BB Maryland.

Did your opponent form Task Forces and leave the Port, Atilla60.

[Atilla60]

ORIGINAL: hunchback77

ORIGINAL: Atilla60

In my current PBEM I started out by striking Pearl on December 7. and again on December 10.
Result:
1 Light cruiser & 1 minelayer sunk - must be the worst result ever.

Oh, and I even had a midget sub hammering a torpedo into BB Maryland.

Did your opponent form Task Forces and leave the Port, Atilla60.

No, he left Pearl Harbor with the default settings on the December 7. turn.

[FatR]

Damage to PH depends on whether you play historical or non-historical first turn. In the former case, the damage is usually heavier than in RL. In the latter, KB is penaltized by standard game rules for overstacking ACTFs, and the damage is much lighter. As an example, in my current Allied PBEM, a two-day PH attack sank two battleships at very heavy cost, in my current Japanese PBEM, a two-day PH attack sank one BB for certain, one BB probably, and five ships of destroyer size and smaller, at light cost, because we played one-day turns and I was able to change the settings for the second day, sending only level-bombing Kates. In both cases, Allies wouldn't have lost even as much, if not for magazine explosions.

[Thayne]

Before starting a full campaign game, I played through the first few days (Allied against AI) a couple of times to learn game mechanics.

I actually did not have any that were worse than historical. In one case where I lost 3 BB at Pearl Harbor, the Japanese missed the Repulse and Prince of Whales completely.

I had one instance where the Japanese attack on PH did not occur at all - I think, due to poor weather.

When I started playing, I ended up with a standard first turn. Oklahoma and Arizona sunk, the rest damaged. The Japanese AI ended up staying around a couple of extra days - mostly slaughtering ASW patrols I had sent out because I thought the Japanese fleet would leave.

It did end up losing a lot of airplanes in the subsequent attacks.

Thayne

[AcePylut]

Can the PH attack be devestating?  Yes, and no.

I have 2 PBEm's going...
 
PBEM#1:  KB attacked PH for 2 days, and no major ships were sunk at PH.
PBEM#2:  One attack at PH, 6 BB's sunk. 
 
Who's to say what's going to happen to you...

[crsutton]

I allways use historical first turn. A bunch of test runs vs the AI and the results exceed the historical usually by a big margin. Perhaps the AI gets a bonus. But in my Pbemails they do vary. It is not unusual to have either the POW or Repulse survive and that is good. My last pbemail attack had the attacking kates not use one torpedo. Every BB was hammered but all of them survived and both POW and Repulse got off with minor to average damage as well. So, it varies.

Anyhoo, the loss of a lot of old BBs hurts but really does not impact the game in the long run. As the Allies, I would druther have em but can do without.

[xj900uk]

Well in a battle I recently started playing as the ALlies against the AI, the attack on PH although delivered at full throttle only managed to sink two ships, a SS and a small surface craft. All teh battleships were hit but none fatally, the Maryland only received one bomb hit which did 5-9-3 damage and will be back in service by the end of December.
Elsewhere the Nellies found & attacked Force Z, Repulse taking no fewer than 7 torpedo and 3 bomb hits (it sank!) whilst PoW was hit by two torpedos, one of which (fortunately) failed to explode. Having suffered 23-13-0 damage it was able to steam back first to Singapore then S to Batavia, where it made emergency repairs before finally escaping to Ceylon. Right now it's on it's way to Cape Town to get the major flotation (12) damage fixed
In the PI, some darn Jap sub [:@] mined Bataan, with the result that four of my subs + two freighters leaving Manila Bay on Dec 8th found them! One SS was leaking so badly it immediately sank! THe other three are still holed up in Manila docks, think I will have to move them regardless of the fact that they are not fixed yet