How best to support Bn attacks with Divisional Arty?

[Chief Rudiger]

When you want to support a particular Battalions attack with the dedicated support of Divisional artillery, how do other players arrange their forces?

I do not like giving artillery units explicit fire orders as i think it is gamey in a lot of circumstances. I would much rather there be an appropriate delay while a Company or Battalion sends a Fire Suport request up the chain. By multi-selecting some Div arty and the Bn's Regt HQ and giving them a defend in-situ order i hope that that arty will take orders directly off the Regt rather than Div HQ.

By the FS request having to go up less steps (from the Coy to Regt rather than from Coy to Div) to find an arty unit then that request should be fulfilled quicker. Also, seeing as that arty unit is under command of the Regt HQ it should not be available for FS requests from other Companies of other Regt whose requests would go all the way up to Division only for them to say "sorry, the other Regt has the guns, ask them nicely"

Right now, from what i've witnessed in game, under the above arrangement, i'm not sure whether (somehow) Div Arty remains under half-command of the Div, and is therefore still eligible for general fire support, or not. If it isn't working then the alternative would be to multi-select the Battalion and the Div Arty to give them all an attack order, with "direct support only" checked. This would result in the artillery repositioning, which i do not want, and the Bn taking on a larger command burden, increaseing orders delay.

Regardless of that however, when directly commanding artillery, say to support a set piece opening attack, how do other players time and target their arty fires? How long and intense should a bombardment be to suppress certain enemies and what are the advantaged/disadvantages to Cannon vs Rockets & Mortars?

[BK6583]

I see there were no takers to answer this question. I'd like to try and resurrect this thread as I have the same burning questions.

[snoopy1710]

What has worked for me was to collect all the long-range Artillery under Regimental (or Division) HQ (usually with the base(s)), and give them a defend / in-situ order (ie don't move) for a patch of real estate that is not threatened (I usually change to high ROF and low Rest as well).

That way they are on call for everybody else when and where needed.

Granted I have only tried the Demo so far, so YMMV....

Snoopy

[simovitch]

Reworking the artillery support code to better reflect dedicated Regiment/Division/Corps support elements is on the wishlist. Right now I'm not sure how well artillery will stick to supporting it's organic line units. I think it holds pretty well at the Battalion mortar support level.

Mortars, Cannons, and rockets all have differing times to deploy, and of course different accuracies and min/max ranges. Rockets fire a bunch of inaccurate salvoes and then you wait while they reload. They all share a common denominator for creating damage - the burst radius and shell size.

[Chief Rudiger]

What about the issue of Div Arty repositioning when subordinated to Bde or Bn HQ? I might understand why the arty does it but it is often unneccesary and means the arty is either in transit or still deploying when its support it most needed. Also, the more often the AI repositions a player positioned unit the more often strange behavious will ensue, like Arty moving "behind enemy lines". Can the basing code be tweaked to make these units stay put unless there's a damn good reason?

[Tzar007]

Depending on scenario size, I will reserve for myself from 1 to 4 artillery units, usually of different gun calibers. As supreme commander on the field, I think it is appropriate for me to personally intervene, based on the evolution of the situation, to help some units with directed bombardment - especially if the AI does not seem to already assign arty support. I don't believe it's gamey if used in a reasonable and moderate way.

As far as assigning army or divisional arty units to a regiment to reserve firing priority, I must confess this idea never crossed my mind before. Makes sense, I'll try that. However, I've always thought best to leave the units attached to their organic superiors, especially for army units, so that they are assigned to the most pressing requests (as evaluated by the AI) from whichever unit on the field.

[blastpop]

ORIGINAL: Tzar007

Depending on scenario size, I will reserve for myself from 1 to 4 artillery units, usually of different gun calibers. As supreme commander on the field, I think it is appropriate for me to personally intervene, based on the evolution of the situation, to help some units with directed bombardment - especially if the AI does not seem to already assign arty support. I don't believe it's gamey if used in a reasonable and moderate way.

It was done- plus it gives you as a player some control and helps to keep you interested.

You have my blessing, son. [:D]

[Prince of Eckmühl]

I consider the employment of "grand batteries" one of the few "cheats" that AA-players can routinely engage in. And I have to admit that I probably reign supreme in this regard. In particular, I've always been impressed with the ability of the human-player to force an AI-unit to surrender under the weight of 30-60 minutes of shelling by 100+ guns. "Mortar batteries" can also be quite useful in breaking towed anti-tank weapons.

Again, its hard not to embrace the practice given its effectiveness.[:D]

[snowflake]

So this sound like an IA bug then. I mean normally when units get bombed for 30-06 minutes they should take cover( hide in their fortified positions ) or relocate to a safe area ,out of harms way.

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: snowflake

So this sound like an IA bug then. I mean normally when units get bombed for 30-06 minutes they should take cover( hide in their fortified positions ) or relocate to a safe area ,out of harms way.

They do take cover (suppression) or run away/relocate under heavy bombardment in the game... I don't see reactions to artillery as an AI bug at all. Are you seeing something else snowflake?

[Fred98]

[font="compatilfact lt regular"]In my view artillery units should not report to divisional HQ.   Instead they ought to report to an artillery HQ and that in turn reports to divisional HQ.[/font]
[font="compatilfact lt regular"] [/font]
[font="compatilfact lt regular"]The arty of the  75th division, is attached a arty HQ beneath 75th div HQ[/font]
[font="compatilfact lt regular"] [/font]
[font="compatilfact lt regular"]The arty of the 89th division, is attached a arty HQ beneath 89th div HQ[/font]
[font="compatilfact lt regular"] [/font]
[font="compatilfact lt regular"]The arty of the 125th division, is attached a arty HQ beneath 125th div HQ[/font]
[font="compatilfact lt regular"] [/font]
[font="compatilfact lt regular"]In that way, an arty HQ can be attached to a regimental HQ or a battalion HQ and then reattached to division afterwards.[/font]
[font="compatilfact lt regular"] -[/font]
[font="compatilfact lt regular"][/font] 

[Deathtreader]

ORIGINAL: Chief Rudiger

When you want to support a particular Battalions attack with the dedicated support of Divisional artillery, how do other players arrange their forces?

<snip snip>

..........the alternative would be to multi-select the Battalion and the Div Arty to give them all an attack order, with "direct support only" checked. This would result in the artillery repositioning, which i do not want, and the Bn taking on a larger command burden, increaseing orders delay.

Bringing this one back as I would really like to find a way to get higher level artillery to dedicate support to specific attacks without assigning the arty to the attacking HQ. This almost always results in repositioning of the arty and higher command loads neither of which I want. I've tried manual bombardments which can be a lot of micromanaging esp in the larger scenarios, defend in situ (either at the unit or higher command levels) with on call which is not always dedicated to the attack in question. Has anyone figured it out yet?? I've kind of given up.........

Maybe this is an enhancement. If so I sure hope we can get it soon. An option for dedicated counter-battery would be nice too.

Anyway, I'll quit whining now & soldier on with the current arrangements. [:D]

Still the best system in town............[&o]

Rob.

[oldspec4]

I'd like to know if there is an answer to this also.

I find myself leaving some artillery on call but will direct most to support certain attack/defend areas. As a result, I have the same micromanagement issue if I have beaucoup artillery assets. I end up pausing the game very frequently as my bomardments end (generally set at 30 minutes) and I order another.

[Fred98]

If your battallion has mortars attached, you can always attach artillery.
&nbsp;
Check the&nbsp;correct box and the artillery then fires in support of that unit and no other.
&nbsp;
Micro management goes away.
&nbsp;
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&nbsp;

[oldspec4]

I understand the battallion mortors..how do I attach an artillery unit to a battallion?

Its past my bedtime so my old mind is operating slower than my usual slow.

[FredSanford3]

ORIGINAL: oldspec4

I understand the battallion mortors..how do I attach an artillery unit to a battallion?

Its past my bedtime so my old mind is operating slower than my usual slow.

Select the bn HQ, then shift + click on the arty units you want. If they are already in range of your attack objective, they shouldn't move (usually).

That said, I usually group a division's atry bns together and give them an in-situ defend order, and let the AI assign fire missions. Occasionally, I'll select them to bombard a specific target, but not often.

[oldspec4]

ok..thanks for the info.

[Arjuna]

ORIGINAL: Deathtreader

ORIGINAL: Chief Rudiger

When you want to support a particular Battalions attack with the dedicated support of Divisional artillery, how do other players arrange their forces?

<snip snip>

..........the alternative would be to multi-select the Battalion and the Div Arty to give them all an attack order, with "direct support only" checked. This would result in the artillery repositioning, which i do not want, and the Bn taking on a larger command burden, increaseing orders delay.

Bringing this one back as I would really like to find a way to get higher level artillery to dedicate support to specific attacks without assigning the arty to the attacking HQ. This almost always results in repositioning of the arty and higher command loads neither of which I want. I've tried manual bombardments which can be a lot of micromanaging esp in the larger scenarios, defend in situ (either at the unit or higher command levels) with on call which is not always dedicated to the attack in question. Has anyone figured it out yet?? I've kind of given up.........

Maybe this is an enhancement. If so I sure hope we can get it soon. An option for dedicated counter-battery would be nice too.

Anyway, I'll quit whining now & soldier on with the current arrangements. [:D]

Still the best system in town............[&o]

Rob.

Rob,

Alas we don't yet model the full range of arty control methods. We do model in direct support, but really it is under command. This will have to be a new feature.

[Fred98]

ORIGINAL: oldspec4

ok..thanks for the info.

Do this while paused.

Then have the game run for one game minute and the link then happens.


BTW SHIFT and click has never worked for me.

-

[oldspec4]

Got it..Thanks. Think I have to use Ctrl + left click to attach a unit vs. Shift + click.

I've had a problem getting my head around good timely artillery support (w/o getting too gamey) since RDOA.