Unrealistic behavior

[Twotribes]

The Japanese AI behaves unrealistically. In the early days the allies can not even counter attack because of restrictions from the supposed surprise. And the Japanese land troops in India, Hawaii and Australia. This is unrealistic. The allies can not even defend against these attacks because their units are so weak.

[doomtrader]

So do you suggest that Japan should wait with attacking Allies until they get stronger?

[patchogue]

In reality the Japanese probably could have behaved like this - the trick is to hold where you can - the Japs can't be everywhere - and pare down their ships. The unrealistic bit is that they don't seem to repair their ships.

[Razz1]

It is highly possible that the Japanese could have taken Pearl Harbor if they wanted too.

Japan did go for India via Burma. They did have alot of Naval actions in the Indian Ocean, but after the first major operations they withdrew the carrier task forces.

Taking Port Darwin was always a goal. Japan wanted to secure Indonesia first.

Unfortunately, the Allies resisted in the Port Moresby area. The Dutch came to the rescue and supplied the fighting forces on the ground with material etc...
Then the Dutch did Island hopping of supplies.

Several transports were lost during the war. It was an all or nothing strategy of the Allies that paid off.

Without the Dutch merchant fleet, Japan would have succeeded.

Concerning Naval Actions.......... We got lucky at the Battle of the Coral Sea. We stopped them but lost the Yorktown and Lexington.

Then we got lucky at Midway. Between these events, we turned the tide of the war.

That area around Rabual was hot bed.

In Axis and Allies, HOI and all other games the goal is to take India and link up with the Germans. It's hindsight.

The British were deafeated in the Pacific and did not return until 1943.

They concentrated on the West Indian Ocean searching for German submarines and the French.

There were more important things like Africa and Europe.

The Japanese had free rein of the Indian Ocean on both sides if they wanted it. In stead they decided to leave.

Do you want the AI be programed to win, or a predetermined set of battles and blunders so you can win?

[Twotribes]

I want the unrealistic cutting of allied forces to 20 percent of power off. It does not matter how many divisions or corps you build they can not fight the Japanese. I only won in Hawaii because of air power. Allied forces were NOT that crippled or weak. Further the Japanese did NOT have the ability to conduct naval ops in the Indian Ocean and the South Pacific and Hawaii at the same time.

I have transport fleets sinking Cruisers while the cruisers all miss. I do not recall large caliber guns on merchant Marine. I have 4 carriers unable to find transport fleets with their air arms then being shelled in naval battle with transports.

[doomtrader]

I want the unrealistic cutting of allied forces to 20 percent of power off. It does not matter how many divisions or corps you build they can not fight the Japanese. I only won in Hawaii because of air power. Allied forces were NOT that crippled or weak. Further the Japanese did NOT have the ability to conduct naval ops in the Indian Ocean and the South Pacific and Hawaii at the same time.

I think that there was a reason why Japan was beating Allies for the first half of year. Everywhere. It doesn't matter how do we call that factor, Japan was better prepared for the war, than any other player on Pacific.
I think that the game is well balanced and presents actual military situation pretty well. Of course if you prefer you can set easy level for Allies, but please don't expect that AI will be replaying history instead of taking advantage from the situation.

I have transport fleets sinking Cruisers while the cruisers all miss. I do not recall large caliber guns on merchant Marine. I have 4 carriers unable to find transport fleets with their air arms then being shelled in naval battle with transports.

I always suggest that we should refer to the latest version of the game, which is 1.02. If you were able to attack other naval group with transports, please report a bug and if possible provide save game.

[Razz1]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes


I have transport fleets sinking Cruisers while the cruisers all miss. I do not recall large caliber guns on merchant Marine. I have 4 carriers unable to find transport fleets with their air arms then being shelled in naval battle with transports.

Perhaps this will help;
I have made this mistake at least three times maybe four.
If you are using counters...........
Please look at the description in the battle screen.
The first line says transport fleet
The second line says the actual unit
Look closely at the counter and you will see that there is a difference and the unit that fired was a CA

When you look at the bottom left dialog box.... it says transport fleet x hits, but this is the name of the group

Another way to check is to hover your mouse over the fleet on the main map. You will see there are alot of crusiers.

The reason why we are missing as Allies, is that we have a penalty in the begining of the game. There is a pop up screen that notifies you of this situation.

I consistantly attack over and over and contimue to miss. Then after X number of turns I start hitting and I go YES! [:D]

Once I start hitting... then I know I can start using my fleet somewhat effectively. Until you reach that point... don't provoke the Japanese too much. Otherwise they will come after you and crush you.

Remember we are fighting a loosing war. Don't forget your comander works on the following turn of assignment. They help alot.

You were very smart to beef up the airforce and save Pearl Harbor.

[Magpius]

Yes while playing counters, the ship names and task force titles alter.
So while the counter may say transports, it still contains all the other ships.

[jomni]

Well, real or not, it makes for an exciting game as Allies.
In my current game as US, I'm not too bothered with the relentless Japanese advance.  I am actually able to take back some islands in the Solomons (I have Guadal Canal, New Georgia, etc...) and stabilize the central and southern pacific in mid 1942.
This is my 2nd game.  In my first game I lost pearl harbor to an invasion.  But I quit and started another. 

[MajFrankBurns]

ORIGINAL: jomni

Well, real or not, it makes for an exciting game as Allies.
In my current game as US, I'm not too bothered with the relentless Japanese advance.  I am actually able to take back some islands in the Solomons (I have Guadal Canal, New Georgia, etc...) and stabilize the central and southern pacific in mid 1942.
This is my 2nd game.  In my first game I lost pearl harbor to an invasion.  But I quit and started another. 

I agree with jomni I wish some players would quit complaining about realism. Nothing is real about any of these wargames anyway that's why they are called "games" in the first place. They aren't even called "simulations" they are called GAMES. Everything should be ahistorical and most do play out ahistorical. The only thing that matters is the units themselves and placements before the war began. After that anything can happen. Japan could land in California and take over half of America and I'd still be happy. If I wanted to watch a movie or read a book about history that's what I would do. When I play a GAME that's what I want to do play a GAME of challenge with WW2 ELEMENTS not WW2 history lesson 101.

[Magpius]

[X(]
[font="times new roman"]I'm agreeing with Frank Burns[/font]!

[Tomokatu]

[Twotribes]

The Japanese did not have the fleet assets nor the troop assets to launch invasions in India, Australia and Hawaii while they were still busy with Dutch East Indies, the Philippines and the British. Yet by January 1942 in this game the Japanese have captured 2 major cities in India, are driving in Burma, have captured the Philippines, taken Port Morsby, taken Darwin, launched an invasion of Hawaii and maintained fleet elements in all the Pacific and India Ocean.

All aided and abetted by a game system that makes it physically impossible for the British to defend India, impossible for the Australians to defend Darwin or Port Morsby and except for air power makes it impossible for the US to hold any ground the Japanese care to take.

Due to penalties imposed by the game allied Divisions at full strength have a defense of.2 due to penalties applied. The Japanese seem to have 3 times the number of troops they historically had and no end to shipping to move it anywhere they please.

[jomni]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Yet by January 1942 in this game the Japanese have captured 2 major cities in India, are driving in Burma, have captured the Philippines, taken Port Morsby, taken Darwin,

I am now in July 1942. Singapore (and Kuala Lumpur) still holds and some DEI islands are putting up a tough resistance. Japan has Port Morseby but the Aussies still has a big presence in New Guinea. Japan has Darwin and now has stepped on India... but not Burma. The Japanese timetable is definitely delayed already.

launched an invasion of Hawaii and maintained fleet elements in all the Pacific and India Ocean.

I prevented this invasion by massing naval power in Wake, Midway, and Hawaii sea zones. I've been sinking thier troop transports most of the time. But there's a big IJN fleet still trying to wreak havok. The trick is to fortify Wake and Midway and too keep substantial ships on these sea areas to thwart any invasion.

All aided and abetted by a game system that makes it physically impossible for the British to defend India, impossible for the Australians to defend Darwin or Port Morsby and except for air power makes it impossible for the US to hold any ground the Japanese care to take.

Well it maybe impossible to defend at the start but you can definitely take it back. The Aussie AI in my game have massed lots of divisions in Wewak and was able to surround the eliminate the Japanese there. They may be moving in to Port Morseby next. I, as the US player, am contemplating on sending troops to the area as well. Currenty my 2nd USMC Corps already capture Kawajelein and US bombers are being shipped into the Marshall Islands as we speak.

Due to penalties imposed by the game allied Divisions at full strength have a defense of.2 due to penalties applied. The Japanese seem to have 3 times the number of troops they historically had and no end to shipping to move it anywhere they please.

Well if there were no penalties then results might be skewed the other way.
The things you mentioned about troop quantity and shipping is based on the flexibility of the PP system. You can build troops ahistorically and ship them around by just spending PP's. Ahistorical results should be expected from games with user-controlled unit production as opposed to scheduled reinforcements (Pacwar / WITP).

Anyway in my game... the aggressive Japanese AI has their tentacles touching the whole region but take note that:
1) They are behind their historical timetable in taking DEI and Malaya.
2) US (played by myself) are ahead of thier historical timetable in taking Solomons and Marshal Islands.
This shows that Japan is overstretched and unable to defend their gains based on the available resources.
Maybe if the Japanese played more historically, then they would be able to defend the "outer ring" properly.

[carnifex]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

I want the unrealistic cutting of allied forces to 20 percent of power off. It does not matter how many divisions or corps you build they can not fight the Japanese. I only won in Hawaii because of air power. Allied forces were NOT that crippled or weak. Further the Japanese did NOT have the ability to conduct naval ops in the Indian Ocean and the South Pacific and Hawaii at the same time.

I have transport fleets sinking Cruisers while the cruisers all miss. I do not recall large caliber guns on merchant Marine. I have 4 carriers unable to find transport fleets with their air arms then being shelled in naval battle with transports.

Japanese armed merchant cruisers with 4 inch guns sunk an allied cruiser in the Indian Ocean IRL FYI.

[Twotribes]

ORIGINAL: carnifex

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

I want the unrealistic cutting of allied forces to 20 percent of power off. It does not matter how many divisions or corps you build they can not fight the Japanese. I only won in Hawaii because of air power. Allied forces were NOT that crippled or weak. Further the Japanese did NOT have the ability to conduct naval ops in the Indian Ocean and the South Pacific and Hawaii at the same time.

I have transport fleets sinking Cruisers while the cruisers all miss. I do not recall large caliber guns on merchant Marine. I have 4 carriers unable to find transport fleets with their air arms then being shelled in naval battle with transports.

Japanese armed merchant cruisers with 4 inch guns sunk an allied cruiser in the Indian Ocean IRL FYI.

American and Philippino forces held out in the Philippines until April 1942. Try that in this game.

[jomni]

True. Philippines will definitely fall in the 1st month.
That is because Bataan in not a not a supply source like Singapore. 
In this game, Singapore always holds out longer than Bataan.

I suggested a tweak where Bataan is a supply source (not just a fortified hex) and you have a Corps sitting in the hex.
That will be difficult to dislodge given the inability to completely attack from all hex sides.

[gwgardner]

A better strategy for holding out in the Philippines longer, is to defend Manila with everything you got.

Otherwise, to recreate Bataan/Corregidor, you'd have to add the Corregidor hex south of Bataan, make Corregidor a MSS, give it a really strong fortification, AND give Corregidor a VP.

Sounds like a cool mod.

[joliverlay]

carnifex

I think you are mistaken. An allied Cruiser was sunk by a raider very early in the war, near Australia, but my recollaction is that it was German not Japanese, and that 6" guns + torpoedoes were used, not 4" guns.

The descriptions of this game are so unrealistic it will be one of the few matrix products I do not buy. The Japanese could not possibly have landed in Austrialia and India at the same time, and NOBODY would have put a corps sized unit on Wake.

[Tomokatu]

An allied Cruiser was sunk by a raider very early in the war, near Australia,

You may be recalling the loss of HMAS Sydney (modified Leander class) to the Kormoran. The Kormoran also sank as a result of the action. The wreck of the Sydney was found only last year, in deep water off WA.