Bombard shoots selves?

[Cmdrcain]

Bombardment still seems iffy... and recent patch seems up losses ..

Sure chinese have low 40-50 experience but I'd think that would mean loss damage to japanese... not them shooting themselves as seems..


Ground combat at Shaoyang (80,52)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1265 troops, 88 guns, 75 vehicles, Assault Value = 744

Defending force 69420 troops, 409 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2453


Allied ground losses:
235 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled




In above japanese have only 85 guns and do a good deal of damage... going vs a higher gun number (409) on allied side..

When the allied counter bombards:
Ground combat at Shaoyang (80,52)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 66061 troops, 404 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2443

Defending force 22218 troops, 268 guns, 115 vehicles, Assault Value = 744


Allied ground losses:
42 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


2443 assault vs 744 and instead of japanese damage, Allies incur damage... this on top of what japanese did...




Then theres

Ground combat at 84,43

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 37635 troops, 178 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1245

Defending force 16860 troops, 114 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 578


Allied ground losses:
17 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



every allied bombardment seems just incur damage to allies, every japanese bombard damages allies quite a bit.

[castor troy]

that´s counterfire... there´s a discussion about it on the main forum. working as designed

[Cmdrcain]

Yet it seems almost always allies take losses bombarding on selves, japanese take less or none and when japanese bombard they take few or no losses where allies take some large amounts.

If allies inflicted damage on japanese and japanese took own damages bombarding allies then it "works" but seems allies bombard ..allies loss... japanese bombard... allies loss..

The fact japanese seldom if ever take own losses doing bombards even when they like go 85 guns vs allies 400+ 1/4+ less guns... allies counter fire of 400 should have inflicted japanese losses in bombarding... I'd say its broke somewhere...

Bombardment at start was ridiculous remember, with very high losses... its been tinkered in every patch and this last one seems gone a bit back to giving japanese advantages..

[Streptokok]

[8|]
Again whine thread about artys.
ART units have been so nerfed they are useless supply eaters. You think your combat reports are "unfair"?

In my game allied player stuffed 30 units in Changsha, with forts and Urban def bonus i needed alot of AV to displace those 30 units. So one turn I fired bombardment with 25 arty units and got 9 casulties with over 1000 guns bombarding...

Nerf artys just a bit more and u might just delete them because then they will jut eat supplies with no damage done at all.
In fact they allready behave like this (9 casulties with over 1000 guns bombarding 25-30 corps???), Im just still hoping they generate disruption/fatigue, I dont even count on inflicting actual casutlies with bombardment...

[HansBolter]

You are basing your assumptions on too small of a selection of data.

My current game is in August of '42 and I have seen plenty of occasions where Japanese bombardments have only reulted in Japanese casualties from the Allied counterfire.


Current turn:

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Ground combat at 88,43

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 10406 troops, 119 guns, 18 vehicles, Assault Value = 802

Defending force 30679 troops, 157 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1224

Japanese ground losses:
30 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Assaulting units:
4th Ind.Mixed Brigade
101st NCPC Route Brigade
15th RGC Temp. Division
2nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
17th RGC Temp. Division
69th Division
16th RGC Temp. Division
36th Division
1st NCPC Infantry Brigade
1st Army
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
61st Chinese Corps
80th Chinese Corps
27th Chinese Corps
98th Chinese Corps
5th New Chinese Corps


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Chengchow (88,44)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 21822 troops, 212 guns, 80 vehicles, Assault Value = 876

Defending force 49442 troops, 224 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1933

Japanese ground losses:
61 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled


Allied ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Assaulting units:
35th Division
32nd Division
22nd RGC Temp. Division

Defending units:
96th Chinese Corps
9th Chinese Corps
47th Chinese Corps
93rd Chinese Corps
1st Chinese Corps
8th New Chinese Corps
89th Chinese Corps
13th Construction Regiment
14th Group Army


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Djordje]

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain
Ground combat at Shaoyang (80,52)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1265 troops, 88 guns, 75 vehicles, Assault Value = 744

Defending force 69420 troops, 409 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2453

Allied ground losses:
235 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

In above japanese have only 85 guns and do a good deal of damage... going vs a higher gun number (409) on allied side..

Don't look at the number of guns in report, it means nothing. Report lists the total number of all squads, guns and vehicles in all the units in hex, no matter if they fought or not. It also lists disabled items which don't fire at all, but take damage if they are fired upon.
Also among other things level of forts influences casualties a lot.

[gdpsnake1979]

I also think that experience means a lot. A few guns in very highly experience units will slam a zillion guns operated by men who more often than not slice their fingers off in the loading......
I just use bombards to inflict disruption and fatigue which means a lot more in the follow up assault than the few squads that replace easily. Same with bombing and shore bombardment - you don't kill a lot (Look at real life WW2 assualts with massive bombardment - "No one could live through?!" Yet the defenders swarmed out when the troops headed in). No, in game terms, it's all about disruption!