Double strat moves?

[xe5]

Reinforcing BGs appear to make double strat moves in that they move onto a map and can move off of it in the same strat turn. The way it should be prtrayed is to have the arriving BG first appear on the movement results screen the previous turn (ie. unable to move elsewhere on the strat map that turn). The reinforcing BG then can move normally on the following strat turn.

In the same vein...

When a reinforcing BG arrives on a friendly-controlled map it can move the same turn it arrived.

[xe5]

When a reinforcing BG arrives on an enemy-occupied map it cant move the same turn it arrived.

[xe5]

When a reinforcing BG arrives on a enemy-controlled, but unoccupied map, it can move the same turn it arrived just as if the map were friendly-controlled.

Shouldnt a reinforcing BG only seize control of the map and not be able to move on the turn it arrives instead of seizing control and being able to move elsewhere? Shouldnt enemy control count for something?

[mooxe]

If you were to count the arrival onto the strategic map as one move then yes, they shouldnt be able to move out. This could apply to friendly or enemy controlled (unoccupied) maps.

In CC5 I always assumed the BGs could move in at night and present themselves in the morning for movement. This could be the case here? If a BG was disbanded at the night move of the new versions, ey shouldnt be respawning in the morning ready to move so quickly.

So that brings up another point. A BG disbanded 100's of KM from its spawn point can reform and be ready for movement again in less than a day. I am not putting any more votes towards increased strategic features though.

[Neil N]

I thought this was part of the 'move through' that people had been asking for, but perhaps it is not working correctly. I thought that way that it worked was moving onto a friendly controlled map would then allow you to 'move through' and exit via any friendly controlled exit VL on that map on the same turn, but your BG would not be able to move via any enemy controlled exit VLs.

Mick, in your 3rd example did you mean "enemy controlled, but unoccupied"? I'm guessing that is the case based on the picture. That one definitely seems like a bug.

[xe5]

@mooxe - yes, I am counting the arrival of a reinforcing BG on the strat map as 'one move'. It had to move onto the strat map from somewhere, and its that presumed movement from off-map onto the strat map that Im counting.

If reinforcing BGs are assumed to arrive before the turn they can be moved, during the previous night (you) or previous turn (me), then their assumed arrival on an enemy-occupied map creates the anomaly of an automatic truce (ie. no combat between the assumed arriving BG and the occupying enemy BG.

IIRC, the issue of BGs reforming and arriving back on the strat map far removed from where they were disbanded is rationalized that the reformed BG is actually a different organization outside the game's limited OOB.

@Neil - if the 'move through' function were intended as 1) moving onto a friendly occupied map and on the same turn 2) exiting via friendly-controlled VLs, thats clearly a double strat move. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with double strat moves, just the question why only reinforcing BGs are allowed to do so? I'd have no problem if mech/motor BGs could move two strat areas in one turn. As it stands now it takes a minimum of 15 turns, until midnight Sept. 21st, for the XXX Corps to get from Valkenswaard to Arnhem Road Bridge. The game's best-case scenario is about a day longer than Monty's most optimistic extimate for getting to Arnhem.

Yup, I did mean enemy-controlled in example #3. You'd think that in a situation like this, reinforcing BGs would be limited to seizing control of the map, that the enemy-controlled map would have a sort of 'phantom' static presence - just enough REMFs and the like roving about to give the reinforcing BG pause.

[Andrew Williams]

I think the whole Strat map is designed with extra arrival maps at the periphery to take this sort of Double move into account.... whether it is working exactly as planned would need testing but from your examples above it seems pretty close.


The other alternative would be for the player to choose, within boundaries, where BG's such as Rink arrive at..... the engine doesn't allow for that.

[Andrew Williams]

that the enemy-controlled map would have a sort of 'phantom' static presence - just enough REMFs and the like roving about to give the reinforcing BG pause.

that sounds like an enhancement ... that BG's could leave behind a tail of "Static" defenders as they pass through...

[xe5]

Considering the new code regulating BG stacking and multiple deploy areas, prohibiting a reinforcing BG from arriving on, and moving from, an enemy-controlled map would be a pretty minor enhancement.

Allowing enemy-controlled maps a chance (40%?) to spontaneously spawn a randomly-sized static BG (3-7 teams?) when the map was entered by an opposing BG would be pretty cool.

I'll settle for static BGs not being automatically absorbed by mobile BGs.

[Andrew Williams]

I'll settle for static BGs not being automatically absorbed by mobile BGs.

Agreed

[xe5]

re: the enemy's 'phantom' presence in occupied strat areas (also apropos of the anti-Force Morale complaint - "Why does one cowering enemy team prevent me from taking the map?")...

On 20 September Gen. Ridgway was moving through the battlefield near Eindhoven. He was alone except for his jeep driver and two aides:

"We came up with the advance elements of British armor. There a junior officer stopped me and told me I could go no further because the road in front was swept with small arms fire. So we stopped a minute to watch how good our British comrades would take out this resistance. They had the muzzles of their tank guns pointing down the road toward where the enemy was supposed to be, but not a shot was being fired. It was a demonstration of caution. . . .I had seen it, and dealt with it many times before. . . .I couldn’t order this tank commander to move on down the road. So, after waiting about forty minutes, and seeing no visible effort being made to outflank this resistance. . .we started walking down the ditch along the side of the road. We went a mile and a half, perhaps, with every sense alert, but not a shot was fired at us. . . .We moved on until we found General Max Taylor at the CP of the 101 Division."

Soldier: The Memoirs of Matthew B. Ridgway, p. 111