Is is possible to do worse than this on Turn 1?

[dukewacoan]

So I just started a new PBEM game, 2-day, Scenario 1, historical 1st turn, surprise.

After all is said and done, my Intel reports TOTAL Allied losses of 5xDD, 1xPT, 1xSS, all at Pearl Harbor. Force Z was not spotted nor bombed. Again, this was using 2-day cycle, so this is the full result from the first 2 days of the war.

Should I surrender now?

Here is the thread from the Combat Report on Pearl Harbor attack.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 07, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Midget Sub attack inside harbor of Pearl Harbor!!!

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-19, hits 2, heavy damage

Allied Ships
BB Maryland, Torpedo hits 1
PC Taney



SSX Ha-19 eludes PC Taney by hugging bottom
PC Taney loses contact with SSX Ha-19
SSX Ha-19 eludes PC Taney by hugging bottom


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 45 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 68
B5N2 Kate x 144
D3A1 Val x 126



Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 4 destroyed, 13 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-18A Bolo: 5 destroyed on ground
O-47A: 2 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 18 destroyed on ground
P-40B Warhawk: 12 destroyed on ground
B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground
P-36A Mohawk: 3 destroyed on ground
F4F-3 Wildcat: 2 destroyed on ground
A-20A Havoc: 2 destroyed on ground
R3D-2: 1 destroyed on ground
SBD-1 Dauntless: 4 destroyed on ground
C-33: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 12, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 12, Torpedo hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DM Pruitt, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AD Dobbin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DM Breese, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
SS Cachalot, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
AE Mauna Loa, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CL Detroit, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Florence D., Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AV Curtiss, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AK Alchiba, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DM Montgomery, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
PT-28, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 3, on fire
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
CM Oglala, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Patterson, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
DD Selfridge, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
SS Tautog, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DMS Zane, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Farragut, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AK Castor, Bomb hits 1
DD Dale, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Downes, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AV Wright, Bomb hits 1
AVP Swan, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Helm, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Aylwin, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
AM Grebe, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Helena, Torpedo hits 1
DD Allen, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk


Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Airbase hits 36
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 195

[Chickenboy]

Chin up.

1. IJN Intel stinks. You may not know for months what you actually sank.
2. Several of those BBs are in pretty rough shape. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Arizona and Pennsylvania are goners.
3. You damaged a bunch of his BBs severely. That will tie up his shipyards for the better part of a year.
4. You destroyed a bunch of first line search aircraft and fighter aircraft. That's an important step.
5. There's a good chance that many of those listed with "heavy fires, heavy damage" will burn to the waterline and sink.

Also, it's against the spirit of the game to quit against a PBEM partner if you don't like your first turn just so. Stick it out and tough it out. You'll be fine.

[findmeifyoucan]

Personally I have never liked 2 day turns. Heard many horror stories when playing in this mode. I much prefer the one day turn games as they are much more accurate. That is just me however.

[findmeifyoucan]

Besides, just because you don't sink a few battleships does not mean the end of the game. You can just get them later. It is the Carriers you want!!! lol

If you didn't hit the Airbase hard, ouch now that would hurt.

[dukewacoan]

Oh, I'm in for the long count. Actually we are doing a 1-day campaign at the moment and my PH attack there was similar. Interestingly in the 1st game, the in-game intel reports said I sunk No BBs at Pearl, but Tracker said I did. What's that all about?

Pearl is something I understand, and agree that some stuff is possibly sunk, and the repair issues will take him time, but no even seeing or attacking Force Z is a real bummer.

[aprezto]

That looks like a fantastic Pearl Harbour. Your intel is erroneous. In fact - well done!

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: aprezto

That looks like a fantastic Pearl Harbour. Your intel is erroneous. In fact - well done!

Ditto.

[Canoerebel]

When I saw the lengthy list of damage to Allied shipping, I figured the "is it possible to do worse" lament had to be coming from an Allied player.  This looks like a VERY effective Japanese attack.
 
Now, attack for several more days (like my opponent Q-Ball did to me) and you may have your opponent ready to concede!

[LoBaron]

Agree with the other posters.

You hit loads of valuable early war assets, he needs those DD´s also and the battleship fleet will be out of service for
quite a long time, some may sink.
Nearly every Allied player will get Force Z to safety if he is allowed to, so no surprize there. With your Betty cover you can still easily
outgun him in the DEIs, just advance carefully and protect your invasion TFs.

Its a long war. Don´t worry. [;)]

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

When I saw the lengthy list of damage to Allied shipping, I figured the "is it possible to do worse" lament had to be coming from an Allied player.  This looks like a VERY effective Japanese attack.

Now, attack for several more days (like my opponent Q-Ball did to me) and you may have your opponent ready to concede!

I thought the same thing (that this was an Allied Post) when I saw the Title. Why complain? This is an excellent attack.

[dukewacoan]

You guys are better than Prozac!!! We are doing the historical home rules, so I can't stay and pound on Pearl. Really wanted to hammer Prince of Wales to get some payback for Bismark.

[Q-Ball]

I thought the same thing, that you were an Allied player complaining!

That is about the best attack I have seen

"Heavy Fires" is key; most ships that break out with Heavy Fires are in serious trouble

Attack again tommorow....anything that doesn't show up on the combat report either a) fled, or b) sank. And looking at that, it probably sank. If you attack tommorow, I bet you see only 3-4 BBs on the Combat Report. The reason would be they sank.....

What was really good on this attack, is that you didn't just get the BBs, you went VERY deep on the other warships, sinking 6 DDs outright (NEVER seen that before!), with NEW ORLEANS, HONOLULU, and a couple more DDs looking very critical.

[John Lansford]

I agree with the others; depending on what kind of bombs hit those BB's, your opponent is probably going to lose at least 2-4 battleships in addition to the smaller ships.  Plus, if none of them are actually sunk, all those damaged ships are going to be in shipyard repair for months and months, clogging them up for when his more valuable CV's and cruisers get damaged.

[derhexer]

Think that's bad? Man, you kicked the snot out of the Americans. Every battleship has been hit, and some will sink, many cruisers have been hit. You didn't do so well on the DDs and SSs, but you took out a lot of planes and did some impressive damage.

You might get lucky and get a swipe at his CVs if you are playing 1 day turns. December 8th, split off the Kaga and Akagi (they are slower)and send them in to launch airfield and port attacks against Pearl, with the battleships and CAs to bombard. Send some DDs with nthe BBa and CAs to protect yiourself against PT boats. Perhaps you can get some port repair hits, which means you've taken out the 1000 ft. dry dock.

Send the Hiryu, Soryu, Zuikaku and Shokaku alogn with some DDs SSW and see if you can find the Enterprise and Lexington. I've set Betty bonbers to Eniwetok and Kwajalein and had some luck with Bettys driving the Alliede carriers back to my waiting arms

[ny59giants]

I can show you the other end of the "bell shaped curve." This was the first day with CV Kaga "elsewhere." CV Hiryu was the ONLY CV to launch torpedoes.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 07, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 69
B5N2 Kate x 90
D3A1 Val x 108

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged
D3A1 Val: 6 destroyed, 30 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-18A Bolo: 2 destroyed on ground
P-40B Warhawk: 5 destroyed on ground
B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 6 destroyed on ground
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed on ground
A-20A Havoc: 2 destroyed on ground
SBD-1 Dauntless: 2 destroyed on ground
O-47A: 2 destroyed on ground
P-36A Mohawk: 2 destroyed on ground
R3D-2: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
AV Tangier
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 3, on fire
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires
xAKL Hirondelle
BB California, Bomb hits 7, on fire
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Bagley, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Raleigh, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
DMS Wasmuth, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires

Since this was GC Scen 2, I decided to stick around for a second day. [:(]

Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 65
B5N2 Kate x 111

Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 2
P-40B Warhawk x 45
F4F-3 Wildcat x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 16 destroyed, 24 damaged The Zeros were ignored pretty much on the way in and in the post attack A2A combat phase. [8|]

Allied aircraft losses [&:][&:]

Allied Ships
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CL St. Louis, Torpedo hits 1
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 13, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AV Tangier, Bomb hits 1
CL Detroit, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Minneapolis, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DMS Perry, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Monaghan, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 1, on fire
PT-25, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
DD Hull, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DM Ramsay, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires

I have 3 1/2 CV out of 5 with full compliment of torpedoes on board. [:(]

[Grfin Zeppelin]

ORIGINAL: derhexer

Think that's bad? Man, you kicked the snot out of the Americans. Every battleship has been hit, and some will sink, many cruisers have been hit. You didn't do so well on the DDs and SSs, but you took out a lot of planes and did some impressive damage.

You might get lucky and get a swipe at his CVs if you are playing 1 day turns. December 8th, split off the Kaga and Akagi (they are slower)and send them in to launch airfield and port attacks against Pearl, with the battleships and CAs to bombard. Send some DDs with nthe BBa and CAs to protect yiourself against PT boats. Perhaps you can get some port repair hits, which means you've taken out the 1000 ft. dry dock.

Send the Hiryu, Soryu, Zuikaku and Shokaku alogn with some DDs SSW and see if you can find the Enterprise and Lexington. I've set Betty bonbers to Eniwetok and Kwajalein and had some luck with Bettys driving the Alliede carriers back to my waiting arms

Yo, go straight into the harbour and do some bombard business but dont forget to empty the ships fuel tanks since they wont return.

[crsutton]

Tell the truth now. Your post was really just a cry for attention. [:D]
 
Nothing wrong with that attack.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Chin up.

1. IJN Intel stinks. You may not know for months what you actually sank.
2. Several of those BBs are in pretty rough shape. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Arizona and Pennsylvania are goners.

Agreed. FOW is real and you don't know yet.

[John 3rd]

I fully plan to add a Posting here sometime today when I get my PH results back in my RA Mod Opener...

[Ramjet]

Why are you complaining? What an awsome attack on PH. Don't worry about the British, if you want them go after them.