P1/P2 Hex Conversion

[sPzAbt653]

Still using .178

Under New Turn Order Rules, adjacent hex conversion does not take place until two turns later, as opposed to the following turn under the old rules. Not sure if this was intended or not.

[Telumar]

Good catch. Can confirm it for .173 and .191.

[Telumar]

It has to do with the new turn order. Turning it off reverts the game to the old behaviour. And it's not mentioned in the What's New briefing, so i think it's a serious bug.

[sPzAbt653]

Yes, under the 'old' turn order rules this doesn't happen. It does encourage a debate though. If my Panzer Division has a movement allowance of 32, and it uses all of it in a turn, at the beginning of the next turn, how had it converted the ownership of the five adjacent hexes that it did not move thru? If it spends the entire turn in its initial hex, it could be logical that the adjacent hexes are converted (with a lack of enemy influence). If it moves its entire allowance for a second turn, how does the initial hex, and again the final hex, convert all adjacent locations. We might argue that the old rules contain a bug and the new rules address it. Or have I been overexposed to TOAW ??

[Panama]

Control of adjacent hexes is a very old wargame concept. It is an assumption that adjacent hexes are controlled through active patrols and a unit's weapon's ability to fire into an adjacent hex. Given this, it should not be surprising that a unit could control surrounding hexes as it moves from location to location.

In a boardgame the scenario designer could decide the overall effect of these assumptions through how 'sticky' a ZOC was based on scale and what he was trying to achieve. This ability was not present in TOAW until Ralph gave us this ability in 3.4. [&o]

[desert]

Well, the obvious solution is to make it percentage-based, per adjacent hex. It doesn't seem to be in the wishlist!

[sPzAbt653]

ORIGINAL: desert

Well, the obvious solution is to make it percentage-based, per adjacent hex. It doesn't seem to be in the wishlist!

Yes, it seems that a unit arriving at the Arnhem bridge at 4 p.m. (having used all 16 of its movement points) would not reasonably control the entire town at 4:01. But the same unit that arrives at 2 p.m. (having used 8 of its movement points) might reasonably have sufficient influence over the adjacent hexes by 4:01 (barring enemy influence).

[desert]

You could also modify the equation with proficiency, readiness, supply, and hex-scale.

[sPzAbt653]

ORIGINAL: desert

You could also modify the equation with proficiency, readiness, supply, and hex-scale.

... unit recon level and unit size. Excellent complications to add for the programmer. [:D]

[ralphtricky]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Still using .178

Under New Turn Order Rules, adjacent hex conversion does not take place until two turns later, as opposed to the following turn under the old rules. Not sure if this was intended or not.

It's working as designed. What's happening is that hex conversion happens at the beginning of the side's turn (you don't get control of the surrounding hexes immediately, that should make for more fluid combat, counterattacks won't have to overcome conversion costs.) In addition, for turn 1 only, I am not performing these checks since the scenario designer might have set them different to slow down one side or the other for the first turn.

If that's not what's happening, please let me know.

[sPzAbt653]

... hex conversion happens at the beginning of the side's turn ...

It happens at the beginning of the sides second turn, not the beginning of the first turn after the unit moves. Not sure it that is what you meant or not.

[ralphtricky]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

... hex conversion happens at the beginning of the side's turn ...

It happens at the beginning of the sides second turn, not the beginning of the first turn after the unit moves. Not sure it that is what you meant or not.

Here's what I'm seeing in Arracourt. It's working as designed as far as I can tell. What are you seeing?

T1
Germans move
Allies move
T2
Germans convert hexes
Germans move
Alies convert hexes
Allies move
T3
Germans convert hexes
Germans move
Alies convert hexes
Allies move

Repeat

Ralph

[sPzAbt653]

Turn 1, move to this position and stop.

[sPzAbt653]

Turn 2, don't move anything. The indicated hex appears to be converted as the border has changed, but note the cost to enter the road hex is still 2.

[sPzAbt653]

Turn 3, don't move anything. Note that the cost to enter the road hex is now 1 as the hex has been fully converted, two turns after the move.

[ralphtricky]

I get this on turn 2, at the start of the allies turn, just as expected.

[sPzAbt653]

And it will cost you 2 mp's to enter the hex to the northeast, along the road. But on turn 3 it will only cost 1 mp.

[Silvanski]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

... hex conversion happens at the beginning of the side's turn ...

It happens at the beginning of the sides second turn, not the beginning of the first turn after the unit moves. Not sure it that is what you meant or not.

I never paid attention to it... Tried it out and illustrated it here.
Hex conversion works as intended, but movement on the second turn is still penalized as if the converted hex was enemy owned

[pionier]

ouh, thats dirty. Good catch =)

[ralphtricky]

ORIGINAL: pionier
ouh, thats dirty. Good catch =)

No it isn't. I've got to figure out how to fix it.

The problem is that the ownership change flag is cleared at the start of the turn so that events can be triggered.

I'm going to think about this for a bit.

<sigh>Thanks.
Ralph