Good Naval Tactical Games?

[Anthropoid]

Here lately I've been playing Nitro Games two age of sail games "East India Company Complete" and "Conquest of the Americas." Fun games, and the tactical battles engine has been fun. Sort've like the tactical battles in the old Sid Meier's game "Pirates!" but better. Nitro publishes through Paradox, so I hope I don't get excommunicated or something . . .

What this game has made me want (and I've suggested it to the Nitro guys) is a game sort've like their engine (good tactical naval battle engine allowing player to control squadrons of up to five and up to three squadrons in a fleet in one battle) with fairly abstracted strategic level for economic/political/building stuff, but one that covers 1800 to 1935 or something like that. Basically through the pinnacle of the big Ships-of-the-line to the ironclads to the steamers and then into the more modern designs and dreadnoughts.

I'd be interested in any good tactical naval game though.

Any suggestions.

[sabre1]

Warship Combat: Navies at War, made by NWS would be my first pick.

Storm Eagle studios Jutland/Distant Guns would be my second, due primarily to poor support and extreme DRM.

Only other currently produced tactical combat games would be the ones offered from HPS.

Salvo, (Age of Sail) which I hear is not that good is still sold by Shrapnel Games.

Fighting Steel is also still sold by NWS, it just depends on how much eye candy you want.

For me Action Stations by Raw, was one of the best WWII tactical naval games ever, followed by Battles for the Noth Atlantic by SSI.

[Anthropoid]

Thanks Sabre!

[sabre1]

Let's not forget Carriers at War here on Matrix, but for me that would not be my choice, just not enough to it.

If Matrix or SSG had done the construction version and added tons of scenarios it would have been an interesting game, IMHO.

[Erik Rutins]

Our John Tiller's Battleground Napoleonic Wars includes the classic Age of Sail. Also, the recent Crown of Glory: Emperor's Edition has a good tactical naval combat engine for that era.

I would also recommend Harpoon for modern naval warfare.

Regards,

- Erik

[Anthropoid]

I love the COGEE engine as it is integrated into that game as a whole. Harpoon I couldn't get into; I need to see some ship graphics [;)]

Is the Tiller game a tactical naval battle engine? Or part of a larger game?

Erik if you guys haven't tried those Nitro games you really should, esp. the East India game. It has been out a couple years and is fully polished now and you can buy it in a "Complete" edition with all the DLCs. Amazingly well done I thought. Would love to see you guys do something along those lines but with your flair for the military detail, more realistic logistics, morale, etc.

So I guess now I'm just waiting for my email with my "Registration Code." Already got the one confirming the purchase details, but I guess NWS sometimes takes a day or so to send you the Registration Code?

That is one thing I totally love about Matrix: You can go from shopping to playing a game with virtually zero hassle within 30 minutes to an hour

[Erik Rutins]

Age of Sail:

http://reviews.cnet.com/pc-games/age-of ... 77273.html

Regarding pictures of ships, you know they do exist in Harpoon right? There's actually a whole new library of military art in the new release. Harpoon is not an "eye candy" game at all, but there are some nice historical photos and ship art included in the database for each ship class and type. The game interface itself is spartan and (for H3) meant to simulate the real thing from a CIC, so it's realistic and functional but not pretty.

Regards,

- Erik

[diablo1]

Now who could forget QQP's "The Grandest Fleet"? It is tactical it has pretty graphics and it has a pretty decent ai. If you can find it you can play it with D-Fend Reloaded (a DosBox workalike but works much better than DosBox).

There are some copies for sale at Amazon.com Also read the review by one gamer there. It's a classic next to Empire and Empire Deluxe.

Game Description
The Grandest Fleet is another in the continuing series of war games published by Quantum Quality Productions. The objectives of the game are a bit unusual in that they focus mainly on capturing, maintaining and building cities. The equipment database in the game is extensive with everything from submarines to carriers and aircraft to airports. City economic status is an important aspect in developing and maintaining a strong support system that ensures replenishment when needed. Coordinated control is paramount to directing, commanding and monitoring all aspects of your strategic and tactical plans and resultant battles. The game contains an enormous database accurately based on WWII hardware and weaponry and a bonus for serious naval war gamers in the guise of a random scenario generator. The interface is simple and easy to learn and complements a well-developed menu system for ease of game play. Nearly two dozen levels of computer opponent strengths are available and the game also supports two-player games by modem. Both VGA and SVGA graphics are supported and The Grandest Fleet contains war-like sound effects and apropos music.

[E]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

The game interface itself is spartan and (for H3) meant to simulate the real thing from a CIC, so it's realistic and functional but not pretty.

Both generically and specifically... "realistic" IS "pretty" in my book! *grin*

[diablo1]

Yeah and The Grandest Fleet IS "pretty". [:)]

[Anthropoid]

Cool thanks for the link to Age of Sail Erik. I kinda feel like some of these genres the games haven't necessarily got better over the years? Seems like some of these old ones were the zeniths?

I should make an effort to go back to Harpoon, it clearly is a fantastic game. But at the time I bought and tried it, I needed more pretty pictures than I remember it offering. I think I was playing on a small sceen laptop and those little unit icons in the data screen weren't satisfactory.

A real-time tactical map with simple animated ship graphics (ideally more like Nitro than WiTP) would've made that game instantly more approachable for me.

Civ4 spoiled me. Even Civ3 spoiled me relative to some of the high-level map-focused GUIs that are so common in operational and grand strategy war games.

In terms of development burden, is it really that much more costly/time-consuming to make a game with at least some degree of eye-candy? Not to mention, I would think it pays dividends in terms of market penetration?

[gabeeg]

Turn based, 1890's-1950's entirely tactical "Warship Combat: Navies at War" from NWS is the best IMO.  
Age of Sail II: Privateers Bounty was the last tactical "age of sail" game I played that worked on XP....pretty good looking and played well enough.
HPS Midway is a pretty good WWII tactical real time game...I have not played HPS's other naval games like Jutland...they seem liked but not loved.
 
It's kinda slim pickings out there...
 
oh!  there  is the the "Ironclads" series that cover ACW, and some other hypothetical and historical wars/battles from the 1860's-1880's.  They are cheap on Gamersgate and got pretty good reviews.  I played the demo of the first one and it was fun but did not grab me for some reason.
 
Erik,
 
  Matrix should find a good Tactical Naval game (any time period) to market or develop.   Add this to my wish list for matrix along with a Modern Steel Panthers I/II "like" top down Squad level tactical game (SPWAW does not count)...no 3D and both turn based please
 

[Aurelian]

RAW's Action Stations is one I'd like to see done again.

I liked the Amiga version better than the PC one.

Though I did learn not to have land in my generated battles. The CPU would just run right into it.

[Anthropoid]

So I'm messing around with the WCNAW game . . . wow, I am spoiled
I can definitely see how this system has its strengths, but SOO abstracted. I guess I played Oblvion too much this summer [:)]

One thing I still have not figured out how to do: change speeds!?

I set up a self-designed scenario GB vs. Germany (computer) 1914. I think I had two BBs and two DDs and gave him a BB, two ABs, some CLs, and some DDs . . .

RMB-(player & computer suprised)-repeat 20 or 30 times! Lost Contact = battle over !?

[Anthropoid]

Playing the auto-gen battles seems to be the thing. Are the scenarios to DL somewhere?

Seems like you do a LOT of shooting and not too much hitting in this game. Guess that's realistic.

Trying a different strategy: weave my way in closer, getting them to expend their ammo, THEN shoot at them! (is that good? [:D]

ADDIT: found the scenarios on the WCNAWS forums.

[Anthropoid]

Well I'm just a tad bit frustrated. Sent in my reg for the NWS forums so I can ask questions there and just waiting to get authorized.

In the mean time, I can only play autogen engagements for some reason.

I DLed a few scenarios (including the torpedo tutorial one) but when I try to load them, both me and the enemy seem to have zero ships and then it just says "ALL SHIPS SUNK" end. Maybe I'm not selecting the correct options as I load it up from the start? I'm sure I'll get it working eventually . . . really looking forward to playing Tsushima! [:D]

[Anthropoid]

Installed the 1.1 update for the WCNAW game and the scenarios (and speed controls) all seem to be working now [:D]

[NefariousKoel]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

So I'm messing around with the WCNAW game . . . wow, I am spoiled
I can definitely see how this system has its strengths, but SOO abstracted. I guess I played Oblvion too much this summer [:)]

One thing I still have not figured out how to do: change speeds!?

I set up a self-designed scenario GB vs. Germany (computer) 1914. I think I had two BBs and two DDs and gave him a BB, two ABs, some CLs, and some DDs . . .

RMB-(player & computer suprised)-repeat 20 or 30 times! Lost Contact = battle over !?

WCNAW is turn-based but it has phases within each turn that you give specific orders. First you'll turn on/off any evasive maneuvering, then give speed & heading orders, all ships move after those orders are given, and then you start giving targeting orders in individual phases by type such as Main batteries, secondary batteries, tertiary batteries, and torpedoes.

It is very much a game with tabletop naval miniature wargaming rules starting with the popular 3-minute per turn scale and so on. I suggest reading up on the manual, at least the parts about what all the symbols and acronyms stand for. [;)]

I'm hoping to see the other game tied into it for mutually integrated campaigns as has been planned. That would kick ass. I'd definitely purchase the other one, then, too.

[Anthropoid]

Yeah, if this tac engine were tied into campaigns it WOULD kick some arse!

Here is a question I am not seeing any answer to in the manual Koel: does the positioning of the ships in the division mean anything relative to the position of the divisions on the tac map? For example: when there are 8 ships in a division, are they actually in a line, or are they two abreast as shown in the ship detail window on the lower left? If I have a ship that has a friendly between him and an enemy fire, does it have any repurcussions?

Sometimes not all the ships in a division are in range, which tells me the app is actually keeping very exact account of positioning and orientation and that it probably figures into tactical success?

[SireChaos]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Yeah, if this tac engine were tied into campaigns it WOULD kick some arse!

True. There were some plans to integrate it into Supremacy at Sea as its tactical engine, but I think they have been postponed indefinitely.

Here is a question I am not seeing any answer to in the manual Koel: does the positioning of the ships in the division mean anything relative to the position of the divisions on the tac map? For example: when there are 8 ships in a division, are they actually in a line, or are they two abreast as shown in the ship detail window on the lower left? If I have a ship that has a friendly between him and an enemy fire, does it have any repurcussions?

I don´t think so. It is not possible for shells or torpedoes to hit anything other than its target, or miss completely.

Sometimes not all the ships in a division are in range, which tells me the app is actually keeping very exact account of positioning and orientation and that it probably figures into tactical success?

Actually, I think that just means that the ships have different maximum ranges, and that you´re just in between the longest and shortest maximum range. Have you ever had two ships of the some class in a division when one was in range and the other was not? Or have you ever had part of an any division, but not all of it, in range of one of your ships?