Long-time lurker buying this one

[fsp]

Hi all,

I just felt the need to share why I started posting here after lurking for years. I am just so excited about three upcoming games that I felt to document my support for this company and the relevant games. All three are sure buys.

1) Panzer Corps
Panzer General was the game that got me started in war-gaming. I was only 15 at the time, but god how I loved that game. Back then, I thought this was very realistically portraiting WWII. I did especially feel so when my armies just went short of taking Moscow due to mud and snow in my first campaign attempt . Somehow, I never doubted the game's realism despite dropping paratroopers behind the lines and then buying tank units there... oh well...

I also do appreciate rudankort's decision to stick with the scale of PG1. While I did like PG2, it really felt epic to play operations like Stalingrad or Low Countries, compared to unclimatic operations like "Klin".

There is one issue I want to raise. In PG1, you often had only one viable route if you wanted a major victory. I would love for PC to have several routes open as options in the different scenarios.

Also, I loved the twisted campaign tree so much and really did not like the "win scenario or lose game" choice that was made for much of PG2. Let me lose a scenario and put me on the defense or make the road tougher for me!

2) Panzer Command Ostfront

I never liked the Panzer Command: Winterstorm demo enough to buy the game. Was too busy to check out Kharkov. But I have always been an avid gamer of CM:BB (don't like the new CM engine...). But the huge list of updates for Ostfront and the sensible pricing made this one very interesting for me. It was a sell once I noticed that it does have campaigns, something I have always missed for CM (sad to see CM Campaigns die...). So, definitely getting this one.

3) GG War in the East

I don't need to use much words for this. After starting off on PG, I turned to more serious stuff over the years. Ended up with WIR (Matrix Edition). First put off by the terrible graphics and the very, very unconventional interface. Once I got the hang of things, I found it rather beautiful. One of the most brilliant game I have every played, though all of my non-believing FPS-playing friendy have never understood it. I have a friend that kinda likes wargames, but for him it does not go deeper than PG, CIV or Total War. A tank has to be a tank on the map for him. Show him a game like WIR, and he does not like it ("Oh, again, crosses and circles, that is not a game. I need to see my tanks and men..."). Digressing here... Anyways, unfortunately I later found out that the AI is quite easy to beat in WIR after w a while, tough I got my ass handed to me in the first games. Never really dared to go PBEM, as I figured I would be utterly crushed by all the pros out there. Maybe a big mistake. I intend to make good on this now. I will PBEM, even though I will probably stand no chance. But I like a challenge and like to fight on the defense as well (also very much like the fact that there will be server based PBEM. I trust the wargaming community a lot, but it is always good to KNOW that this all to perfect last turn of your opponent CANNOT have been a cheat...)

WitE is a dream come true. AARs and info here on the forum look perfect. I know I will be playing this forever. And the other plans with a WitW game and maybe a combination sound very, very promising as well.


Again, it may seem stupid or redundant to post in all three sub-forums, but I am not sure if every developer reads every forum and I wanted them all to know that there games are already sold for me. Also, I feel this might give you guys a little bit of background for me, as I want to become active in PBEMs.

[Michael T]

Hey Daniel
I was a lurker for many years as well. Like you I am keen on PBEM via the Server. No doubts can be raised about honesty. I will be looking for a non-playtester opponent first up on the Server PBEM so we might get a game going.
Cheers
Michael

[Flaviusx]

Nobody wants to play against us? [:(]

[ool]

Only if they are masochists!

[gids]

Same story for me mate ,WiR was my first shot at something more hardcore ,then war in the west followed alot of HPS games a worked all the close combats off but i really im more fan of big scale things,i spended countless hours on norm kogers game ,anyway but team grigsby seem to have the same fascination for details like most grognards have here,when i saw the first time years ago the message they would work on WitE i was like ...this is it ...,since then im a matrix addict although im just started to post on the site because im not really a forum talker but most people here seem to be from the sime mind plus the conversations are great ,anyhow if ya need a Pbem partner give a yell im a big nub in it as well but i dont mind getting my ass handed to me ,and you never know how it will go...stalin was ready to capitulate as well if my memory serves me right ,

[Flaviusx]

ORIGINAL: ool

Only if they are masochists!

If you see this guy named Andy Johnson, play him. He's a real creampuff.

[wmcalpine]

Flaviusx,

That is not very nice.

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: fsp

Hi all,

I just felt the need to share why I started posting here after lurking for years. I am just so excited about three upcoming games...

1) Panzer Corps... I also do appreciate rudankort's decision to stick with the scale of PG1. While I did like PG2, it really felt epic to play operations like Stalingrad or Low Countries, compared to unclimatic operations like "Klin".

There is one issue I want to raise. In PG1, you often had only one viable route if you wanted a major victory. I would love for PC to have several routes open as options in the different scenarios.

Also, I loved the twisted campaign tree so much and really did not like the "win scenario or lose game" choice that was made for much of PG2. Let me lose a scenario and put me on the defense or make the road tougher for me!

Yes, yes and yes.

ORIGINAL: fsp

3) GG War in the East... WitE is a dream come true. AARs and info here on the forum look perfect. I know I will be playing this forever. And the other plans with a WitW game and maybe a combination sound very, very promising as well.

I think you're one of Grigsby's, Matrix's and the hobby's dream customers. Keep the passion up! Nice to meet you fsp. Hope to hear from you more often [;)]

Cheers,
Adam.

[Captain B]

Well, I like someones idea of playing the soviets against an experienced play tester to get the feel for how it must have felt to be the russians the first four months of the war. Who knows, I may ready to get my butt kicked.

[CheerfullyInsane]

ORIGINAL: Captain B

Well, I like someones idea of playing the soviets against an experienced play tester to get the feel for how it must have felt to be the russians the first four months of the war. Who knows, I may ready to get my butt kicked.

Actually to *really* get the experience you'd need to have someone standing behind you with a loaded gun every time you try to move a unit eastwards. [:D]

However, getting back to the OP, since we're all de-lurking here I figured I'd jump in as well.
WitE looks like it might finally be the definite East Front game.
I tried (no, really I did) to like the original WiR, but never could get past the interface and somewhat lacklustre graphics.
But what really sells it for me is the server-based PBEM. It's not so much a question of the possible cheating through use of save-games, since I'm confident enough (read: plain dumb) to think that anyone who plays a game of this scope will be mature enough not to stoop that low.
But after trying server-based multi-player in Field of Glory, I've found that the sheer ease of finding opponents of all skill-levels is a life-saver.
Especially for someone like me who is less-than-savvy when it comes to finding the active forums.

Only problem is.....Across the Dnepr 2, WitE and now a new tournament in Field of Glory.....
I may have to quit my job [:D]

[fsp]

This is starting to feel like Alcoholics Anonymous here. Keep it coming [:)]

I too liked that idea (I think it was by a beta tester) to play as the Russians first and thus learn by suffering badly.

Ah, the job. If only I did not have that one [:D]

[glvaca]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Nobody wants to play against us? [:(]

I'll play! No better way to learn the game then to play against the best!

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

BTW, guys, IMHO it would be useful for WitE beginners to:

#1
Read manual (and it is huge [;)])

#2
Read tutorial

#3
Play some shorter scenarios "Road to..." against AI

#4
Only then jump into PBEM bandwagon... [:D]



Leo "Apollo11"

[gids]

ill follow that lead noworries thanks for the advice

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

BTW, guys, IMHO it would be useful for WitE beginners to:

#1
Read manual
#2
Read tutorial

#3
Play some shorter scenarios "Road to..." against AI

#4
Only then jump into PBEM bandwagon...

This is my plan - which is why I have begged Eric elsewhere for whole manual to be released a couple of days in advance of game.

Am trying to get an old friend, with whom I played WIR (20+ years ago IIRC) posting floppies with saved games on, to play this PBEM but he's worried this game may be a bit too complex. We both 'cheated' all the time with WIR but we both knew we were so that was OK morally even tho' with hindsight the games would have been more fun if we had not.

I'm seriously tempted to play '41 full campaign on PBEM server though and would even play Flavius if we could do a deal on how many extra admin points I got! It would waste too much time for both of us if he did to me what Pyledriver did to normal AI on his recent AA, or worse.

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

BTW, guys, IMHO it would be useful for WitE beginners to:

#1
Read manual

#2
Read tutorial

#3
Play some shorter scenarios "Road to..." against AI

#4
Only then jump into PBEM bandwagon...

This is my plan - which is why I have begged Eric elsewhere for whole manual to be released a couple of days in advance of game.

Am trying to get an old friend, with whom I played WIR (20+ years ago IIRC) posting floppies with saved games on, to play this PBEM but he's worried this game may be a bit too complex. We both 'cheated' all the time with WIR but we both knew we were so that was OK morally even tho' with hindsight the games would have been more fun if we had not.

I'm seriously tempted to play '41 full campaign on PBEM server though and would even play Flavius if we could do a deal on how many extra admin points I got! It would waste too much time for both of us if he did to me what Pyledriver did to normal AI on his recent AA, or worse.

Even though the manual is huge [:D] and the game enormous... one can quickly get the hang of it... the gameplay is smooth and every player will learn "the ropes" in a few days... I don't think players will have problems with interface or gameplay at all... [:)]

BTW, the only "problem" starts when you strat to dream your frontline in the night and wonder if you could have done something else (i.e. better) somewhere... [:D]

Thus beware - the WitE is captivating! [8D]


Leo "Apollo11"

[Flaviusx]

Just fyi: I'm 100% a Soviet player. No interest whatsoever in playing Germans. This, as it turns out, is something of a minority taste for some odd reason.

[ool]

I prefer playing the Soviets in the first two years. After that I play the German. Being the underdog in a big way is very appealing to me.

[CheerfullyInsane]

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

BTW, guys, IMHO it would be useful for WitE beginners to:

#1
Read manual (and it is huge [;)])

#2
Read tutorial

#3
Play some shorter scenarios "Road to..." against AI

#4
Only then jump into PBEM bandwagon... [:D]



Leo "Apollo11"

Oh no! You're saying that this game has a learning-curve?!
Damn.....Well, won't buy it then. I thought it would be like Checkers only with tanks. [;)]

Seriously though, it's not bad advice.
Tutorials are always good, and reading the manual at least once is probably a good idea too.
Though usually I find that I can't remember half of it anyway, and still prefer the 'learning-by-doing' approach.
Judging from the excerpt of the rulebook,it's fairly basic stuff for anyone who's played wargames for a while, so after playing for a few days (probably in a row) the flow of the game becomes clear and the manual can be reserved for those special case.....
"Now, I've got paratroopers jumping across the river into a mountain-hex, and with an artillery unit in support. So can I attach an alpine transport unit with my engineers, drop goats in inflatable boats and then ferry the artillery over the river before hauling it up the mountain?"

To me, there are two things that can make a game a 'monster'; scope and rules clarity.
Now, WitE clearly qualifies for the scope but that in itself isn't a problem as long as the rules are clear and the implications of ones actions are easily understood.
Something like HPS' PzC Moscow is a perfect example of this. It's big yes, but the mechanics are simple (well, reasonably so) and I never feel that I don't know what I'm doing.
It's far worse when the mechanics aren't clear, or if the information you need to make decisions isn't readily available.
The AGE engine is, at least to me, the best example of this. It's obviously a beautiful set of games, wonderfully adaptable engine, but I've yet to make it through turn 3 of any of them.
Too many things going on under the hood, and half the time I have no idea what is happening or why.
And don't even talk to me about WitP:AE........If you need a spread-sheet to understand what is going on, then that isn't a game, that's a second job. [:D]

But what I intend to do is go through the tutorials, and then play a few smaller scenarios against the AI.
After that, it's on to PBEM to find another beginner.
Given that all players are different and tend to focus on different things, I've found that I usually find stuff my opponent hasn't noticed and vice-versa, thus improving both our understanding of the game.
Granted, starting with a 41-45 campaign is probably not a wise decision, but with multi-player you get the opportunity to ask your opponent why he did what he did (and how for that matter).
I will obviously get spanked the first many games I play, which is fine by me.
I don't mind losing (well.....much) as long as I know why.
And one thing I love about wargamers, they are almost to a man a polite and informative lot. [:)]

Now....Release the damn thing already!

[SGHunt]

ORIGINAL: CheerfullyInsane
And one thing I love about wargamers, they are almost to a man a polite and informative lot.

I resent that!! [;)]

You can learn the basics by playing, indeed the basic mechanics are sweet and simple, but not all of it! To get the best out of the game, you have to know what's going on under the hood at least to a certain extent.

You will not regret PBEM - it's my first time PBEM and I have loved it - and you will get your ar*e kicked if you play Andy (Sabre)! You will need at least 2 games on the go so that you can carry on playing whilst waiting for the return turn by email. It's a big game and turns take time. And we have to work and stuff...

We are nearly there now, children. Can you see the sea yet?