Map Size

[Prince of Eckmühl]

Where did we end up on this?

As I've previously noted, I found the kilometer-square maps in the first two PzC games to be present some pretty severe constraints on maneuver when populated with "the Big Boys."

Which is to say, that in some scenarios, there really was no maneuver.[;)]

The most powerful units in the game appeared capable of destroying any enemy that they might encounter at 1000m.

Units simply entered the map and let loose with all they had at their disposal.

A second question really predicated on the first...

Are there any maps included in Ostfront which include maps larger than 1km x 1km?

[junk2drive]

Yes 500m 1000m 1500m and 2000m square maps. I'm MP on two different 2k maps right now. One is a rolling open farmland for random battles and the other has lots of woods, light woods and fields.

[Prince of Eckmühl]

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Yes 500m 1000m 1500m and 2000m square maps. I'm MP on two different 2k maps right now. One is a rolling open farmland for random battles and the other has lots of woods, light woods and fields.

Excellent!!![&o]

We can have some proper shootouts on the steppes now.

Life is good.

[junk2drive]

I solo played one by mobius, a rolling 2k with a rise in the middle and trying to sneak up on the PZIVs with my T34s proved very difficult. You can hide from the one over there that you can see and get side shot by the one over thataway that you didn't see.

[Mad Russian]

Here is one of the 2k maps J2D was playing on today. This is a SS of the entire HUD/Message Box and highlighting a tank combat at 471 meters. You can see how much map is beyond where the 471 meters is shown between the two tanks. Lots of maneuver room on this map!

Good Hunting.

MR

[junk2drive]

we are playing with options on, SOP, bogging and breakdown, fatigue. This map has knock down trees and I had a T34 knock down a pine tree and bog. One free it broke a track. I tried to withdraw to clear the tree and it broke the other track. It is now immobile taking shots at MR from ~1000m.

[Prince of Eckmühl]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Here is one of the 2k maps J2D was playing on today. This is a SS of the entire HUD/Message Box and highlighting a tank combat at 471 meters. You can see how much map is beyond where the 471 meters is shown between the two tanks. Lots of maneuver room on this map!

Good Hunting.

MR

This simply looks marvelous. In another life, I can remember being "criticized" for my willingness to embrace the virtues that appeared to underlay this whole design. Now I feel vindicated.

What the larger maps will enable is this:



Notice that the flanks will be clear to a distance of 400m. There will be no gaming the map-edges in a meeting engagment.

Hats off to you all; I couldn't be happier with the outcome.

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl
This simply looks marvelous. In another life, I can remember being "criticized" for my willingness to embrace the virtues that appeared to underlay this whole design. Now I feel vindicated.

Larger maps tax the systems. In another life the developers tried to keep the game so older computers could play well. As time has passed more and more people have upgraded their systems so more can be done.
Example of a 2km map.

[Prince of Eckmühl]

And a second image so that our readers can appreciate the company frontages involved:

[Prince of Eckmühl]

ORIGINAL: Mobius

In another life the developers tried to keep the game so older computers could play well. As time has passed more and more people have upgraded their systems so more can be done.
Example of a 2km map.

I understood where they were coming from all along. The problem was that, in most instances, it reduced the contest to some manner, or other, of a programmed ambush. The increase in map size would appear to alleviate most of what I took to be a shortcoming in the application.

No kidding, I think that this is gonna be great.

[junk2drive]

The shot by mobius is the one I referred to earlier. You can see the fold in the ground that I had to cross. There are other bumps that you can't see from this angle. Behind the gelb PZs is more map and it rises. You can see the far left corner of the map in the shot.

Here is CM at 2k by 1k.

[junk2drive]

MR made this battle so I'm not worried about revealing anything to him. With light woods the amount of cover is deceiving.

I am using an intergrated ATI HD 4200 set at 256mb with the game set at medium textures, high level of detail, AA and AF off. BMP converted to jpg with MS paint.

This is my broken down T34 that has spotted a PZII at almost 1000m. Notice the minimap locations of the units.

[junk2drive]

My T34/57 opens up on a lightweight target, revealing himself to the PZIIIs. I order him to withdraw. His subordinate to the left did that automatically last phase. I have SOP set to standard.

On the minimap the blue squares are the Germans. I have snipers set about the map as spotters. They are set to hold fire. Because of them I as commander can see a lot of enemy units. My units can only see what they can see. Notice that when I click on a unit, only the enemy that is visible to him displays on the map.

[junk2drive]

I think mobius has made every T34 that was made. MR researches a battle, comes up with a list of obscure iron, and mobius seems to have a book on it. I don't even know what a 42e is!

POE it took 8 turns for us to cross the ground to the point of contact with 1k range. Using advance with cautious SOP and hold fire may have allowed me to get a little closer without revealing myself.

[junk2drive]

In the next phase, the sub unit is withdrawing but gets his track hit and is still not out of sight. Track hits slow the speed of the unit.

The message box tells me one the the PZIIs has been damaged. FOW prevents you from knowing what the damage is. Could be a track, or the gun?

[Prince of Eckmühl]

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

The shot by mobius is the one I referred to earlier. You can see the fold in the ground that I had to cross. There are other bumps that you can't see from this angle. Behind the gelb PZs is more map and it rises. You can see the far left corner of the map in the shot.

Here is CM at 2k by 1k.

Gorgeous maps. Are they included in the Ostfront package or will they be sold separately. That's a real question, btw, not a setup or ambush. It's just obvious that someone put a ton of labor into them, and its not beyond the realm of possibility that they could be sold as an add-on. Likewise, if there are any extra costs involved, y'all may as well get it out in the open now.[:)]

[Prince of Eckmühl]

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

I think mobius has made every T34 that was made. MR researches a battle, comes up with a list of obscure iron, and mobius seems to have a book on it. I don't even know what a 42e is!

Yeah, it looks like mobius and MR have drilled down pretty far into the inventory.[:D]

POE it took 8 turns for us to cross the ground to the point of contact with 1k range. Using advance with cautious SOP and hold fire may have allowed me to get a little closer without revealing myself.

Perfect.[8D]

These maps would appear to take the game from one which is primarily suitable for company-level actions to the battalion-level.

And if you go higher than battalion-level, I'd be concerned that logistics would become and issue, leaving players demanding that units be capable of being resupplied with ammo and fuel.

Put another way, this may be about as far as you need to go, size-wise.

I've got an open mind, though, so I'll take a look at whatever comes our way![;)]

[junk2drive]

No they are just a labor of love and we are trying to add more content to the finished product. MR is a saint. He hand paints each of his terrain maps with the roads and center stripes and all of that. mobius keeps buying books and poof there is a new scenario that he read about. speller is quiet for a while and boom, a whole set of Marders or the halftracks. benpark and JMass have made a lot of good stuff and then some other dang game gets their interest. I hope they come back.

[junk2drive]

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

I think mobius has made every T34 that was made. MR researches a battle, comes up with a list of obscure iron, and mobius seems to have a book on it. I don't even know what a 42e is!

Yeah, it looks like mobius and MR have drilled down pretty far into the inventory.[:D]

POE it took 8 turns for us to cross the ground to the point of contact with 1k range. Using advance with cautious SOP and hold fire may have allowed me to get a little closer without revealing myself.

Perfect.[8D]

These maps would appear to take the game from one which is primarily suitable for company-level actions to the battalion-level.

And if you go higher than battalion-level, I'd be concerned that logistics would become and issue, leaving players demanding that units be capable of being resupplied with ammo and fuel.

Put another way, this may be about as far as you need to go, size-wise.

I've got an open mind, though, so I'll take a look at whatever comes our way![;)]

Now that we have ammo counts, it does become a factor.

With the current setup, you better have a stout computer to run a battalion on both sides.

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: junk2drive
a whole set of Marders or the halftracks. benpark and JMass have made a lot of good stuff and then some other dang game gets their interest.

BTW, the 'Quest for Marder' is going on another forum. It apparently is named for the Pine Marten, a small cat size varmit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Pine_Marten