Damn Minsk!

[JudgeDredd]

Just had a lesson in how not to command mobile forces!

Playing Road to Minsk (only 3 turns) and fell short of Minsk and WAY short of other objectives! Soviet Decisive Victory - and I was playing on Easy!! I guess I have a bit to learn [:D]

I guess I'm too cautious a commander (something I often find when playing Combat Mission Shock Force).

[JudgeDredd]

And the confirmation [:-]

[karonagames]

Can I ask what your Ratio of Hasty:Deliberate attacks is like?

[JudgeDredd]

Not sure tbh. Initially I was performing hasty attacks. Then I started doing deliberate attacks. I think all turn one and some of turn two were all hasty...from there I only used hasty when I didn't have enough points to do deliberate.

I've only just finished reading about hasty and deliberate attacks, discovering how expensive they are in MPs for mobile forces.

I'm not sure (even now) of what was best - hasty attacks are much cheaper with MPs but less effective. On the other hand, deliberate attacks are more effective, but use a chunk of your MPs.

Perhaps in this scenario, I have the forces and mobility to mostly use hasty - I will be playing it again though - so I will find out.

I almost skipped over this scenario because it's only 3 turns - but there's so much to do and get right in those 3 turns - I'm very glad I didn't skip it! Kudos to the designer [&o]

[Duck Doc]

I am not the Minsk expert but I feel like one because I have played it so much learning things. I am currently on turn three & have all objectives but one (the most southern). I let my panzer divisions drive for Minsk & the eastern objectives. While driving I do not let them stop to fight unless it is a sure thing & it won't slow them down. Most forces encountered on deep drives by panzers are speed bumps only. I have two pockets forming: one west with the non-panzer (infantry) forces & one east with the panzer forces. Let the Soviet units sit at the start line & bag them this way. If your mobile forces get bogged down you won't get any objectives. I have to keep remembering this when doing kesselschlacht. Keep the mobile divisions driving deep & don't stop them.

I am not crowing here because it took me more attempts than I will admit. Does this help? Happy hunting!

[sitito]

As they are at the ss the 2 and 3 panzer army, in your third turn, is how must look at the end of the first turn, at least its what im doing with good results. [8D]

[Krupinski]

ORIGINAL: Dale H

I am not the Minsk expert but I feel like one because I have played it so much learning things. I am currently on turn three & have all objectives but one (the most southern). I let my panzer divisions drive for Minsk & the eastern objective. While driving I do not let them stop to fight unless it is a sure thing & it won't slow them down. Most forces encountered on deep drives by panzers are speed bumps only. I have two pockets forming: one west with the non-panzer (infantry) forces & one east with the panzer forces. Let the Soviet units sit at the start line & bag them this way. If your mobile forces get bogged down you won't get any objectives. I have to keep remembering this when doing blitzkrieg.

Quite a good tactic. but do you care for your supply lines? or do you ignore them? i ve the problem that the whole rail-system on the russian side ist destroyed (another gauge than germans). so there are no supply lines (???).

[htuna]

Hi Judge, in the beginning did you let your infantry break through the lines and then rush forward with the panzers? This way they don't waste MPs going through that initial line. I think I read that in an earlier post and it makes sense and works.. I only played it once and only got a draw, but, definitely feel I could've done better then next time. Also in the first turn bomb the heck out of the NME Airfields!

[hgilmer3]

I wrote up my strategy on the Road to Minsk (before I had won a decisive victory) in the Warroom on this thread...

tm.asp?m=2653004

This is basically the same strategy that Emir Agic described in the "Road to Minsk" thread here on general.  Anyway, I described it, then used that strategy to win a decisive victory in the Road to Minsk. 

I was thinking about doing a indepth AAR on the Road to Minsk since it is only 3 turns and go in detail a lot of the moves.  I'm thinking of doing it this weekend.  If I can get a decisive victory in The Road to Minsk, anyone can. [:)]

[JudgeDredd]

I did not employ my motorised units properly. I let them get bogged down in fighting and used them initially as the pincer to close the bulge at the start which prevented them from shooting forward. I massively underestimated how far I would be able to move in 3 turns...that's all. Knowing that now, I will try again and employ my motorised units properly

And I left alot of the aircraft stuff to the AI - so I didn't do any bombing. I need to read up on it because the reason I did that was I guessed I wouldn't have much tacair if I used them to bomb...I'll read up on it though before I take command of my air units.

[Krupinski]

Well, after several attemts i finally made it (major victory) [:)]



First i opened the frontline with infantry. then i rushed my tanks. 50% heading for minsk, 50% heading further east. i used most of my infantry to clear the pocket in the west. In the screen you can see my movements from turn 1-3.

[hgilmer3]

It seems like if you get to Mogilev and Zhlobin by turn 2, the AI usually doesn't have it defended.  At least Zhlobin.  If you can take Zhlobin with no real fighting, it frees up all your southern panzers to go straight at Mogilev.

[htuna]

Judge, you can still do the first turn Airfield attacks Automatically as well.. Just go into the Airfield Attack mode. and then hit the letter 'a'.. it will then carry out attacks against the NME airfields..

I think all Airfield Modes, if you want it to initiate something, you have to go into it and hit A..

other option is to go into the Airfield Attaack mode.. and just right click on your targets...

[mavraamides]

@hafer -

That's an awesome diagram, what did you use to make it?

Also,

I've played this like 6 times now and I can get to the brink of (but not quite take) Minks on my first turn on normal.



Haven't completed the turn yet but all the air and the bulk of the ground fighting is done. Now I just have to pull up HQ's and air and secure a supply corridor. I probably wasted some of my INF finishing off the last Russians when they really should have headed east. Those units were doomed anyway and you don't get a bonus for early kills!

My units on the gates of Minsk hammered away at that one stack of Russian units but it only seemed to make them stronger! They will head east next turn while the second wave of armor finishes Minsk off.

The key it seems is to use your slower inf to open up a gaping hole in the enemy lines so your faster armor and mech don't have to waste even a single AP to get to their target. They just roll through the open terrain while the rest catch up from behind. That seems to be the only way to reach the back objectives in 3 turns. Of course, against a stiffer front line, they would have to participate in the breakthrough itself, but not here.

[Krupinski]

ORIGINAL: GordianKnot

@hafer -

That's an awesome diagram, what did you use to make it?

http://www.techsmith.com/download/snagit/

[dougb]

Hafer has the correct strategy - you really have to keep those panzers moving and that requires opening up large gaps with the infantry and pouring the motorized units through.  I don't think Minsk can be taken on turn 1 but you need to get a good 3-4 divisions around Minsk at the end of turn 1.  Since you get the VP's for taking Minsk by the end of the game you could leave the capture of the city till turn 3 when you might be able to move up infantry to take the city. 
 
In the game I won a major victory I stormed Minsk with 3 Panzer and 1 Motorized divisions on turn 2 - it was not that easy to capture the city.  I think an absolute must on turn 2 is to get some motorized units across the Berezina to put you in a better position to take the Eastern objective cities.  I also try to make sure that I keep my panzer HQ's within range of my motorized units and in general try to keep the divisions in each Corp concentrated.  I also try to not tangle up my motorized units in too much fighting, other than taking the key objective cities and where necessary clearing the approach routes (rail lines) that I will be tracing supply along.  Supply beings to get quite problematic when you get to the other side of the Berezina.
 
Best wishes,
 
Doug
 
 

[Davekhps]

Here's what I wrote up on Minsk in the War Room.
 
I haven't tested it out yet, but one trend I'm noticing from those that score well here: you have better luck going to the south of Minsk to take Zhlobin and approach Mogilev from the south versus heading towards Vitebsk and taking Mogilev from the north.  Either way, besides Minsk, you need to take 2 out of 3 of Vitebsk/Zhlobin/Mogilev to have a chance a major victory, so set your objective early and don't disperse your forces (mass! mass! mass!).

[hgilmer3]

I do a lot of what GordianKnot does, but I try to have a clear rail in the North from Kaunas, to Vilnius to the outskirts of Minsk.

In the South I go through Baronavanichi and then go straight East, with a couple breaking off to help pocket.

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: cmurphy625

Judge, you can still do the first turn Airfield attacks Automatically as well.. Just go into the Airfield Attack mode. and then hit the letter 'a'.. it will then carry out attacks against the NME airfields..

I think all Airfield Modes, if you want it to initiate something, you have to go into it and hit A..

other option is to go into the Airfield Attaack mode.. and just right click on your targets...

I didn't know that - thanks.

[Duck Doc]

The Minsk scenario is only 3 turns long. I will let you know about supply problems after I get to the longer scenarios. But the blitzkrieg/ kesselschlacht principle is still the same.

ORIGINAL: hafer

ORIGINAL: Dale H

I am not the Minsk expert but I feel like one because I have played it so much learning things. I am currently on turn three & have all objectives but one (the most southern). I let my panzer divisions drive for Minsk & the eastern objective. While driving I do not let them stop to fight unless it is a sure thing & it won't slow them down. Most forces encountered on deep drives by panzers are speed bumps only. I have two pockets forming: one west with the non-panzer (infantry) forces & one east with the panzer forces. Let the Soviet units sit at the start line & bag them this way. If your mobile forces get bogged down you won't get any objectives. I have to keep remembering this when doing blitzkrieg.

Quite a good tactic. but do you care for your supply lines? or do you ignore them? i ve the problem that the whole rail-system on the russian side ist destroyed (another gauge than germans). so there are no supply lines (???).