First two turns mini AAR, with tips.

[Walloc]

At request, im doing a mini AAR of my first 2 turns as too what i have learned by now. Im sure ill learn more at time goes by so this is "best" i can do as of now. Im trying to include tips on why i do as i do, not that it cant be done differently.

First my overall strategy is too rout/attack as little as possible, but encircle as much as possibly along with deep panzer thrusts. So the infantry can on turn 2 attack as many isolated units as possible to make them surrender, as opposed just to rout/retreat them. So i wont run into the units later or the personel in them.

I use the infantry to punch the holes for the mot/pz unit to conserve their movement for as deep thrusts as possible.
Then move in the mot/pz units to create the encirclements. Last i move in the inf to try and ZoC out as many units as possible in the pockets to keep them inside the pockets.
Only place ill attack more than "needed" is to clear the RRs that my FDB unit needs. Getting as much of RR repaired as fast as possible will pay of later.

Importand tip. If and when i rout units. If they fall inside what will become pockets i avoid moving adject to them, if at all possible.
Why? cuz all it does it make them rerout many times out side the pockets, tho with a 10% retreat attrition.
If in instead keep them in the pockets they will shatter if isolated causing more casulties and most importandly removes the units from the game. One less unit to be a stopping block later on, causing how ever slight delays.

Picture of AGN at end of first turn.

I run a double enveloping pincer on the units SW of Riga along with pz thrusts to get crossings on the Daugava so i can get to Pskov ASAP to avoid them starting bulding a line at the Velikaya river.

There is a reason i so the double envelop pincers on the troops SW of Riga. The coast to connest to ports and the russians control the Baltic to any units with acces to those wont get isolated. So its importand in order to make them surrender in turn 2 to cut them off from the sea. Hench the double pincer movement.
I see no reason to get to Riga per say or cut if off either as its a port and same will be true for any units "caught" there.
Also it seems the AI evacuates Riga if u dont so that means that i on turn 2 have no stopping block there and can march on to Leningrad at the cost of not get a route on a single div. Good tradeoff in my book.

Note that i avoid going adject to the routed units making the enveloping pincers, keeping them in the pockets. Also note the moving in of inf to ZoC out as much as possible the good order units so they cant run to the sea/hugging up with other pockets to get a supply line going.

Thats it for the first post.

[Walloc]

AGC top part.

Tactics are the same here. Create pockets.
As i havent found a way to encircle Minsk yet with the MP the mot/pz have the goal is to creater smaller pockets why going deep and set up an encirclement of Minsk on the next turn.

Note again the routed units i isolated on the top part.

Note how i try and ZoC out the middle pocket with the panzers as the pincer isnt particular wide so he AI would just go S/E and get in supply. Avoid my planned surrenders of them on turn 2 cuz they'd not be isolated.

Trying to do same on the NE pocket but to few units to go around.

[Walloc]

AGC lower part.

Same tactics.

Finnished up the big pocket N of Brest Litovisk. Same with pockets in middle of AGC.
A few notes.

Didnt i say i didnt go adjecting to isolated units?[;)]

Check out the 2 small pockets in the middle near the polish border. One i purposely havent gone adjecting too while other i have.
Difference is i knew a unit had retreated into the one im adjecting too. If routed units are in same hex as good order they wont rerout on going adjecting.

Knowing i couldnt get the Rovno Pocket finnished on turn 1, but setting it up for turn 2 enciclement. Its of utter importance to cut the small pocket(red circle) next to if off from the Rovno pocket totally off my blocking with units. ZoC wont do. So the small pocket is isolated for turn 2.

Note also how im setting up a pocket around Rovno for the next turn. Lotsa armored units in that and im not too concerned with being cut off this early on.

The Pz div going into the marshes might seem odd. The reason is two fold. One getting as far into the marches as possible to convert hexes so inf divs and get through faster on following turns while i take the pz out. 2ndly and most importandly.
As soon as i had created hole it went in. AI has a tendancy to have any routed units flock on that RR. Since i cant encircle them i effectively forces the AI to place the units else where. For possible later encirlement. To add it can turn South to finnish up the Rovno pocket in turn 2.

Also i use 2 of the 3 Pz corps in one of the AGC PzGrps in AGS area. They IMHO cant really add much to AGC thrusts since I still cant really encircle Minsk in turn 1.
In AGS they of great use tho in making the Rovno and surrounding pockets. Bagging all that armor that is there. While it release the PzGrp in AGS to other things.

[Walloc]

AGS.

Same tactics.
Goal, going to the rumenian border on turn 1 creating a huge pocket.

Only 2 of the Pz divs has the movement points to do it, and only just. So its importand to clear the way with other forces. Using the other mot/pz divs and inf divs to do that.
Also creating a wide enough pincer so it cant be closed. U cant Zoc it all out. Fortunatelty the fastest enemy units are at the top so the buttom part doesnt have to be as wide.

Also as said in previous post. Setting up an the possibility of an pocket at Rovno in following turns.

[Walloc]

Destroyed units at end of turn 1.

As u will see its not many. As i purposely havent tried to shatter or rout more than necesarry.

[Walloc]

Start of turn 2 so i or russian havent attacked any thing at all.

Now the dividends of not going adjecting to the routed units in the pockets has payed off.

Note the 3 Tank divs not on the list at end of turn 1 and the mot and rifle divs too.
Thats now units gone. Shattered cuz of being isolated and routed as far as i understand it. [:)]

[Walloc]

AGN start turn 2.

Note that the routed unit isolated and not stacked with a good order units are now gone. Shattered!. Even those Mot divs in the circle that was in a pocket that got "rescued". Read supply restablised cuz of units breaking out/in.

Btw that the only pocket that has been that. Note how the inf and pz units has ZoCed out much of the possible break out routes in particular, not being able to reestablish contacts with the coast in Latvia.

This means all the pockets except the one is isolated and ripe for attacking and making the units in them surrending as opposed to just routing.

[Walloc]

AGC top part start turn 2.

Not much to say. i got lucky and ZoC'ed out the russian units so nada could break out of it.

[Walloc]

Most of the tank divs in the Rovno area seems to be still there. Setting up for creating an pocket.
Top part of big pocket in AGS area held too.

[Walloc]

AGS start turn 2.

No moving units in south part break the AGS pocket so its isolated. Ready to be mopped up with inf.

Thats its for tonight, no more football in the telly. Will do my turn 2 tomorrow and end the AAR with that.

Hope it has helped some with some idea's. Not saying this is the best way to do it, but it seems to be a way to bag alot of russians vs the AI early on.

[CarnageINC]

Nice pocket in AGS, I've heard ppl doing it but never seen it done yet.  This is a must do IMO, I need to look into this further.  So your using two different panzer armies to achieve this, can it be done with only AGS panzer group, I'm a stickler for keeping my forces organized [:'(]

[Walloc]

Yes it can be done with that the AGS PzGrp only.
I use the AGC forces only for the Rovno operation and follow on.


Kind regards,

Rasmus

[Jim D Burns]

Hi Walloc, thanks for posting this. It will definitely improve my opening moves and overall game play. But regarding some of the things you’ve done, I would never do them, due to the fact a human player will destroy many of your exposed divisions.

I use the AI as a tool to train for human play, so I try and keep my opening to something I’d do vs. a Human opponent. The Huge pocket in the south can easily be broken and that panzer division and the ones near Rovno would be juicy targets for a human opponent, so my opening won’t be so grand down south.

Additionally several of your thin 1 hex corridor supply routes around Minsk are very exposed and just asking to be closed by a human player, which risks placing a large percentage of your AGC panzers out of supply.

But overall I really like your strategy of isolating vs. blowing through Soviet units. I guess I’m conditioned by years of wargaming that you have to get as far east as you can as fast as you can and all else be dammed, so I didn’t even consider the consequences of my over-running the routed units instead of isolating them. As you said they’ll be there to fight again someday.

Thanks,

Jim

[Walloc]

Hi Jim,

Thx and yes this is for vs AI play only. I wouldnt take the chances i do vs an human opponent. I'd say some of the operations can be done vs human but far from all. Alot of the tips/tactics are IMHO very viable vs a human opponent too tho ofc in lesser degree.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[Avenger]

Very cool Walloc. That is a lot of encirclements. The most that I have seen.

[jjdenver]

Is the AGS south big pocket via vs a human opponent? I guess not right? I'm not experienced w/ the game enough to know for sure so thx for confirmation.

[Walloc]

No idea jjdenver. If i was to try i'd do a few things differently, allocating more units to keep the pocket closed.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[Walloc]

AGN end turn 2.

Off to the races. There arent really any combat forces to encircle 90% of units not behind my lines are HQ and AF. So its just a question of getting as deep as possible.

I want Pz units at Pskov and across the Velikaya making that position untendble to defend. Cutting down on any possible defendble places on the way to Leningrad.
Unfortunatly i just lack 3 MP to enter Pskov it self but i should have making any defence there unpratical.

As expected AI evacuated Riga. All mot/pz of the PzGrp is making it way towards Pskov for a combined move on Leningrad afterwards.
Using inf div to attack the pockets while trying to get as many off to the races too, using the in last turn converted hexes for max speed. A few inf divs are used to keep pockets but they used their max mp to get there so its not really at an loss.
A small inf corps of 18 Army is directed to clear the coastal zones, but i want as much inf off towards Leningrad ASAP.

Btw this is the last turn i wont be garrisoning cities. From now on ill avoid partisan by garrisoning cities with axis allies in teh south and german sec forces in the North.

[Walloc]

AGC end turn 2

Mistakes are made.

Again there isnt much left to surrond and encircle in terms of combat forces. Using recon, nearly all units behind enemy lines are HQs and AF. So mostly a question of getting as deep as possible.
Using inf to finnish of pockets while Pz/mot strikes deep.

I should prolly have moved the mot div on its way to Vitebesk down south a few hexes before to encircle the few divs in the pocket that could have been formed. Could have bagged 2 tank divs for sure tho they still have a way to go on foot out.

Again im trying to get as much of the inf not used in cleaning pockets off to the races. Its possible to move more off alrdy on turn 2 leaving some forces to clean up the pockets. Guess im anal in cleaning them releasing all my inf for races on turn 3.

Doing the way i do turn one, my pz/mot cant reach the Dnepr on turn 2. I guess this is debateble whether this is smart or not allowing the AI too forming a line there.
On the other hand a line there allows for oppertunites for making more pockets [:D] later on.

[Walloc]

AGS top part at end turn 2.

Immer forwarts Rollo, immer forwarts. My german spelling are failed!
Pockets, pockets and more pockets.


Sending Cav div into the marshes its the fast to move in marsh hexes in my experience.
Using inf to clean pockets and the few that arent tied down with that is moved off to ZoC pockets tho not many units are availble for this task.

As u can see there is no stopping and consoledating my lines. Pz/mot dives are pushed deeper trying to create more pockets.
im very well aware all of the pockets in AGS wont hold and there will be break outs. Would it be possible for a human player to surround some of the divs, sure. AI seems fairly inactive in first 2 turns. im using that to the fullest.

I'd say there is sense to the madness. I've done extensive recon and as u can see there isnt really many russian combat units outside the pockets. This means there isnt many possibilities to "break into" the pockets. This mean the energy of the units in the pockets is used to get out. Not to form defensive lines. Getting the enemy to react to me, not act on its own premise. Also being isolated the divs in the pockets will have fewer MP. Ok they will break the pockets but wont be doing much more than that.
In effect im using my speed to cover my flanks.
This also means in the following turns they'd be even easier to encircle with follow up forces since they cant move far off.
Again now there is practicly no combat forces between me and Kiev. The AI shouldnt be able to get any defence lines going before Kiev.