Did I blow it?

[Crimguy]

It's turn 20 and I think I haven't made enough headway to succeed as the Germans.

They've suffered 2.098.024 million casualties to my 409802.
AGN stalled 30km south of Novgorod at Lake Ilman, and to the east at Lychkovo.
AGC is at Smolensk southward to just a couple clicks east of Gomel.
AGS it at Kiev southward to Nikolaev.

I' just feel I haven't taken any of my objectives, have no hope of taking Moscow or Leningrad, and am probably doomed to failure . . .

Is there a chance at recovery from such a ho-hum start?

[2ndACR]

Maybe in 42, you have to survive the winter first. That is the biggest test I can think of. Survive the winter in good condition, you have a chance. 

[Crimguy]

So you think I should just dig in now (in October) and sit it out?

[2ndACR]

Oh, yes, dig in hard and dig in deep. The Blizzard is brutal. If no mud, launch deliberate attacks at everything next to you but dont advance unless you can pocket a bunch of russians. I don't advance, but mass deliberate attack everything. You can inflict another million casualties if your lucky that way.

But the key is to dig in deep and build those rails.

[Fänrik Stål]

ORIGINAL: Crimguy

It's turn 20 and I think I haven't made enough headway to succeed as the Germans.

They've suffered 2.098.024 million casualties to my 409802.
AGN stalled 30km south of Novgorod at Lake Ilman, and to the east at Lychkovo.
AGC is at Smolensk southward to just a couple clicks east of Gomel.
AGS it at Kiev southward to Nikolaev.

I' just feel I haven't taken any of my objectives, have no hope of taking Moscow or Leningrad, and am probably doomed to failure . . .

Is there a chance at recovery from such a ho-hum start?

That's actually worse than the AI Germany is doing in my current GC as the Soviets. Wanna play a PBEM?[:D]

[Crimguy]

LOL. I know it is. I did something incredibly stupid in the North, splitting forces to go both East and North to "wrap around" Leningrad. As a result I didn't have enough force in either direction. In the South I circled the Pripyat marshes using far too many Panzer corps for the job and as a result I again had insufficient forces to drive East. I am tempted to start over - this was after all my first attempt at the game (don't we all just jump into the campaign?)

[Q-Ball]

I would play out the winter, then start over. You need to see it to understand it. It's actually better practice for PBEM, because you won't have Leningrad and Finnish Help, which is more realistic for PBEM.

What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger......

[karonagames]

I would play out the winter, then start over.

I agree - you will get badly battered in your first First Winter, but you should pick up clues on how to survive better next time around. It is also important that you see what recovery potential you have in the March 1942 Snow turns, as you can recover ground lost during the blizzard turns.

[WilliePete]

ORIGINAL: Crimguy

LOL. I know it is. I did something incredibly stupid in the North, splitting forces to go both East and North to "wrap around" Leningrad. As a result I didn't have enough force in either direction. In the South I circled the Pripyat marshes using far too many Panzer corps for the job and as a result I again had insufficient forces to drive East. I am tempted to start over - this was after all my first attempt at the game (don't we all just jump into the campaign?)

I restarted my German main campaign(normal) maybe a dozen times to the point where I have the first 5 turns mastered(my opinion). I'll run into organized Soviet defense at the Dnepr in the Center, Novgorod in the north and Zhitomir in the south around turn 3-4. On my current campaign it's turn 7 and the Soviets have 1.3 million total losses to my 139,000, and I'm about to close another large pocket at the gates of Kiev which will nearly wipe out all Soviet resistance on my side of the Dnepr in the south around Kiev.

I'd like to think I doing well and maybe you can compare with me to gauge how well you are doing. I never played past turn 20 yet, because I keep restarting every time I begin to understand something new about the rules...

There is another way to look at it though. Since this is your first campaign you might want to keep playing on and simply deal with the situation you are in. Not knowing what to expect adds another dimension to the game. After all, the Germans couldn't restart their campaign every time they experienced something that didn't go their way!

[Farfarer61]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I would play out the winter, then start over. You need to see it to understand it. It's actually better practice for PBEM, because you won't have Leningrad and Finnish Help, which is more realistic for PBEM.

What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger......

Is it normal for the SU to always hold Leningrad in PBEM?

[Klydon]

ORIGINAL: Farfarer

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I would play out the winter, then start over. You need to see it to understand it. It's actually better practice for PBEM, because you won't have Leningrad and Finnish Help, which is more realistic for PBEM.

What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger......

Is it normal for the SU to always hold Leningrad in PBEM?

At the moment it appears that if a Soviet player wants to hold Leningrad, there is not a whole lot a German can do about it in 1941. It will remain to be seen if there is a way in a campaign for the German to make a Soviet pay for the overzealous defense of Leningrad, but right now it doesn't look the Germans have figured it out yet.

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: Farfarer

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I would play out the winter, then start over. You need to see it to understand it. It's actually better practice for PBEM, because you won't have Leningrad and Finnish Help, which is more realistic for PBEM.

What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger......

Is it normal for the SU to always hold Leningrad in PBEM?

Nope my opponent did a right hook around lake ilmen and caught me flat footed. He cut me off and because of the isolation rules they all just eventually surrendered.

[bwheatley]

Hehe maybe i wasn't overzealous enough in my defense. But I put it all south and southwest of ilmen. He came around ilmen blew through what i had in the bad terrain and in about 4 turns had it cut off. It was all down hill from that point.

[bwheatley]

Oh to the OP i'd also play it out. That first winter really opens a lot of eyes. So take whatever the Ai does to you and at least 2-3x worse vs a real person. My first winter turn i cut off 3 german divisions. Prime divisions too. Thats 45k germans who won't be hurting me in summer 42.

[abulbulian]

ORIGINAL: Crimguy

It's turn 20 and I think I haven't made enough headway to succeed as the Germans.

They've suffered 2.098.024 million casualties to my 409802.
AGN stalled 30km south of Novgorod at Lake Ilman, and to the east at Lychkovo.
AGC is at Smolensk southward to just a couple clicks east of Gomel.
AGS it at Kiev southward to Nikolaev.

I' just feel I haven't taken any of my objectives, have no hope of taking Moscow or Leningrad, and am probably doomed to failure . . .

Is there a chance at recovery from such a ho-hum start?

IMO, no you are facing the worst to come. if you're only at t20.. then wait till blizzard hits at t25. Expect to lose 100k each week just from attrition loses for about the next 12 turns (might diminish a bit later) and that does NOT include any loses the sov units impose on you. Any units that are dug in will still be pushed back if the sov player applies any pressure.

FYI I had sov loses at 4 mil and 16k afvs while I had 500k and 2.3k afv loses starting t25. I took Leningrad BTW.

two turns later I'm at 800k loses and the sov units are blowing through my well rested, fortified, and supplied line.

I'd say your in deep deep trouble if you've only incurred 2 mil loses to sov player. You need to have it up to about 3-5 mil to have any chance against a decent sov player (AI or human).

But really IMO, if you don't get auto vic in 41, you'll probably have no chance of a victory.

[cookie monster]

[/quote]

But really IMO, if you don't get auto vic in 41, you'll probably have no chance of a victory.

[/quote]

I think these games are designed so that the Germans cant get auto victory, much the same as the Japanese always found it difficult in War in the Pacific.

[jomni]

I think the victory conditions in this game count. 
Even if you don't perform up to par in 41, I do believe that you can still put up a fight and not lose the game (at least a Draw).
 

[CarnageINC]

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

Hehe maybe i wasn't overzealous enough in my defense. But I put it all south and southwest of ilmen. He came around ilmen blew through what i had in the bad terrain and in about 4 turns had it cut off. It was all down hill from that point.

Lesson learned for all of us, I'm sure people will be more cautions of this maneuver from now on[;)]

[bwheatley]

Of course ara also took a panzer army from central front to reinforce the north. So he threw a lot at me. But in reality in 41 i find it more that if a german player really wants something he's going to take it. And when i say really wants i mean he also commits the forces required to get the job done.

[bwheatley]

Man the first year is very emotional on both sides. For the soviets its when you're being steam rolled. For the germans it's watching your army evaporate before your eyes.