Talk me into (or out of) this game...

[AdmiralEggman]

So I've been lurking in this forum for the past few weeks trying to decide if I WitE is for me. I've read a bunch of the threads in the war room, cheked out some AARs, and generally soaked in what the folk here have tosay about the game.

First, a bit of background. My best (only) gaming partner just recently moved 6 hours away. That sucks. I have been looking for a digital way to replace for our monthly weekend war game antics. We enjoyed Second Front, Western Front, and Pacific War long ago. WitE seems like it may be a good fit.

Many aspects of the game look amazing. All the screens I've are gorgeous and from what I read, the AI can pose a challenge. The PBEM sever concept seems like a winner as well.

I do have some concerns that have kept me from pulling the trigger so far.

1. While immense and complex, I worry that WitE could become (for lack of a better word in my brain at this hour) "solved". Will the same strategies be used over and over because there is only one optimal way to handle the campaigns? The more I read about the mass exodus to Poland before the blizzard, the more I rethink the purchase.

2. Along the same lines... How "foggy" is the fog of war? How often are you shocked to find enemy formations where you didn't expect them waiting to spring a trap? I tend to like games that offer some ability for deception. I haven't gotten a good sense either way of that aspect from what I have read so far.

3. Finally (for now as I'm sure response will prompt more questions) I worry about what I think I have read about WitP and WitP:AE. Can anyone shed some light how they ended up separate?. Did owners of the original have to shell out again for AE? Getting the funds for this past the lil lady of the purse string now may be a challenge, but having to buy a game twice wouldn't happen and would leave me pissed. This last one is based on a limited (and likely biased) reading I've seen in the threads.

So with all that said, should I get this game? Should I find something else (recommendations)? Should I wait? Will you try to talk me out of it just to avoid any possible future long annoying posts from yours truly?

Thanks in advance.

[Zebedee]

ORIGINAL: Admiral Eggman
1. While immense and complex, I worry that WitE could become (for lack of a better word in my brain at this hour) "solved". Will the same strategies be used over and over because there is only one optimal way to handle the campaigns? The more I read about the mass exodus to Poland before the blizzard, the more I rethink the purchase.

There's too much 'friction' to allow for guaranteed successes. Take for example the assault on Brest Litovsk in the first turn - usually 3 divisions will clear it out, sometimes those Soviet units are there for a few deliberate attacks and so limit those 3 divisions' movement after the city is taken. Repeat for every engagement... Maybe 'optimal' strategies are possible (certainly against the AI) but it's more Go than Chess, and it's definitely not checkers.

2. Along the same lines... How "foggy" is the fog of war? How often are you shocked to find enemy formations where you didn't expect them waiting to spring a trap? I tend to like games that offer some ability for deception. I haven't gotten a good sense either way of that aspect from what I have read so far.

Foggy enough for even constant aerial reconnaissance to miss the armoured division sat in reserve on occasion, as I've found several times to my chagrin.

3. Finally (for now as I'm sure response will prompt more questions) I worry about what I think I have read about WitP and WitP:AE. Can anyone shed some light how they ended up separate?. Did owners of the original have to shell out again for AE? Getting the funds for this past the lil lady of the purse string now may be a challenge, but having to buy a game twice wouldn't happen and would leave me pissed. This last one is based on a limited (and likely biased) reading I've seen in the threads.

AE was really a 'super-mod' in its origins as far as I recollect, and I understood from the outset that there'd be a price to pay to see a professional job done in taking WitP on that bit more. As an owner of WitP, I got a substantial discount on the purchase of AE on release - which was a generous thing to do, as I would probably have paid full price again. AE came a number of years after WitP though, so if a similar project for WitE is envisaged, I'd hope it would have time to gestate and mature before being done - and by that time I could sacrifice the price of a couple of pizzas and the obligatory peace offering to the other half again XD

So with all that said, should I get this game? Should I find something else (recommendations)? Should I wait? Will you try to talk me out of it just to avoid any possible future long annoying posts from yours truly?

That's your call I'd certainly recommend it as an upgrade to WiR and I've been playing it near constantly since purchasing it. Was exceptionally pleased with the speed the hardcopy reached me and even the much discussed 'bugs' and 'glitches' and 'design implementations I'm not particularly fond of' really don't take any of the shine off this game for me. Genuinely loving it and kudos to those involved in its creation, testing and upkeep

[ool]

This post reminds me of the TV ad about how an ex drill instructor would do as a psychiatrist.

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Admiral Eggman
1. While immense and complex, I worry that WitE could become (for lack of a better word in my brain at this hour) "solved". Will the same strategies be used over and over because there is only one optimal way to handle the campaigns? The more I read about the mass exodus to Poland before the blizzard, the more I rethink the purchase.

There are good strategies and bad strategies, but for all I know, WITP was never "solved" (and I played it for years). I don't think WITE will be "solved" in that sense either.

2. Along the same lines... How "foggy" is the fog of war?

Pretty foggy, foggy enough.

3. Finally (for now as I'm sure response will prompt more questions) I worry about what I think I have read about WitP and WitP:AE. Can anyone shed some light how they ended up separate?. Did owners of the original have to shell out again for AE?

AE started as mod, some people weren't 100% happy with the way original game worked so they tweaked a thing here and a thing there and soon those tweaks amassed into a mountain of tweaks and scenario(s) worthy of their own title.

For the record - I wasn't too happy about the choices AE team made, but it's certainly their right to do what they did.

AE sold as a separate game with it's own price. I can't remember whether the buyers of the original WITP were given any discount, I think they were....

WITE comes with the editor (as did WITP) so I expect mods and scenarios to start to appear very soon. You won't have to buy a new game to play them. At the moment I cannot imagine anyone making "WITE AE", if that happens that's gonna be far into the future anyway (say 3-4 years). Biggest complains in WITP were with the map of the Pacific, in fact without a radically new map I would dare say there would not be WITP AE at all. WITE map is much better, in fact I haven't heard any complaints about it yet.

[AdmiralEggman]

ORIGINAL: ool

This post reminds me of the TV ad about how an ex drill instructor would do as a psychiatrist.

Yellow does make me sad.

[morganbj]

ORIGINAL: Admiral Eggman

ORIGINAL: ool

This post reminds me of the TV ad about how an ex drill instructor would do as a psychiatrist.

Yellow does make me sad.

Then maybe we should chug on over to to mamby pamby land so that MAYBE we can find you some self confidence, you jackwagon! [:D]

[TulliusDetritus]

AE sold as a separate game with it's own price. I can't remember whether the buyers of the original WITP were given any discount, I think they were....

Yes, they [we] were. I was so excited when I bought AE (playing WitP since the 13 august 2004 almost every day) that I forgot the discount thing! So no discount for me [:D]

[KenchiSulla]

You want to play a quality wargame that is fun to play vs AI and PBEM?

Buy it...

[leehunt27@bloomberg.net]

Its a fantastic game- and the amount of value you get versus one nice dinner out etc makes it quite compelling. I've mentioned this on forums before but I'm sure this one will be played PBEM in my home for many years...

[Q-Ball]

Stay away. Just like AE, it's a F-ing Time Vampire.

Besides that, VERY good.

[Jay Doubleyou]

Simpe answer: buy it.
I doubted for three weeks. And everyday the feeling to buy the game become stronger. When I gave in, the game didnt dissapoint me at all! I was more then happy to spend the amount, it's worth every euro/dollar etc!
It's deep but very playable at the same time due to the easy gameplay(modes).

I have played Advanced tactics many times, especially the Great Patriotic War (east front). When you play human opponents no game is ever the same. And this game is way better [;)]