Leader assigning (air group) please someone shed some light?

[viberpol]

I've been wondering for quite a long time but never found the answer... [&:]

What are the rules that allow some good leaders -- those that are actual elite pilots in the group -- command the squadron?

Because sometimes you can, sometimes you can't choose a leader from among the elite (>80 exp) pilots from inside the squadron. Those almost always have very good leadership/inspiration values...

See for example CDR Fuchida Mitsuo, that has very nice statistics.
But I can't make him lead any other group than that partial Ryujo-1/3.
If I release him from leading this group, he is lost somehow. No way to pick him as a leader in other squadrons.

[viberpol]

Some practical example no 1.

Load the file below and find CDR Endo Y. leading Nisshin-1 group.
He's highlighted with asterisk, a flying pilot leading the group, with nice statistics:
63/66/A:70/Aggr 72. So I reckon he's a leader.

[viberpol]

And now load the second file.

I transferred Mr. Endo Y to Akagi-1 daitai.
It happened he's immediately available, with no delay... but if you try to assign him as a new commander... well, there's no way you can find him on a list of available leaders... [&:]

[viberpol]

And after some time you find out that there are many good leaders that, at least according to Tracker/practical experience... should be available, but cannot be assigned.

So, I've got two questions.
1. How can one assign an elite pilot from inside the group to lead the squadron. What are the rules?
2. Where's Minoru Genda and rest of my good "air rated" pilots? Why they cannot be assigned?

[michaelm75au]

This problem is related to the other leader issue you raised.

[viberpol]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

When leaders change group and appear to also be a pilot, the assosiated pilot record is attached to the group that they are placed in charge of.
However, the associated pilot IS NOT the leader in this case. These 2 leaders actually have an American and a Soviet pliot record attached to them.

This will be fixed by breaking the link when the leaders are moved, and I will look into why the leader's pilot record is being lost.
It could be due to this bug just pulling across the wrong pilot and then compounding the problem.

Hm... I always thought that IDs are the same, but it seems that leaders from above of IDs:
23462,
23466
.
.
23469

are not the same as these IDs from pilot list.
So those lists are not the same you say?

ORIGINAL: michaelm
I will look into why the leader's pilot record is being lost.

[&o][&o] I would be great to get them back!
[&o][&o] Thank you for your assistance Michael, great job. As always. [:)]

[michaelm75au]

For each pilot who also is a Leader, there is a leader ID pointing to the Leader details.

Plus on the Leader side, there is a Pilot ID in the Leader details pointing to the Pilot details.

The issue is that in some cases these ids don't point to each other like they should.
Thus a Japanese leader might point to an American pilot who is pointing to the correct American Leader, rather than pointing to a Japanese pilot who should point back the Japanese Leader.

Confusing![:D]

[viberpol]

Curioser and curioser... [;)]

Michael, this is under "j" test patch.

I successfully managed to transfer my elite leader between groups and forced him to lead the other group... BUT... take a closer look at his stats.

They all changed after transfer! [&:]

That's the same ENS Endo Y. first leading Nisshin-1 group and below after transfer to Shoho-1 group. He changed rank, leadership, air and all other values [:D]

Also: no signs of other elite leaders that Tracker says are available... Fuchida, Genda etc.

Saves will follow in the next posts.

[viberpol]

Endo Y. at/leading Nisshin-1 group.

[viberpol]

Endo Y. at/leading Shoho-1 group.

[michaelm75au]

One thing to note is that pilot leaders are usually transient/temporary. That is a pilot may be raised to a leader in order to command a group (usually starting with a fragment). When that happens, he will get a random set of leader skills.
Once he is taken away from that group, he can lose that status (and the leader skills). There is check at that point to determin if he retains a leadership status.
Thus if he is later raised to a leader status again, he would get another set of leader skills.

This is a compromise because there is not enough space for every pilot to be a leader - the game runs out of leader space like in the original WITP.
[This is just a general comment, I haven't looked to see if this is the case in the save]

[viberpol]

This is a compromise because there is not enough space for every pilot to be a leader - the game runs out of leader space like in the original WITP.

This is understandable.
OK, but limited number of leaders and random generating of values while creating leaders is one thing and loosing the values is second...

ORIGINAL: michaelm
That is a pilot may be raised to a leader in order to command a group (usually starting with a fragment). When that happens, he will get a random set of leader skills.
(...)
Thus if he is later raised to a leader status again, he would get another set of leader skills.

Is there any way to lock the values?
Although the change is almost for sure quite random, after the transfer he got promotion from Ensign to Lieutenant. OK.
Leadership and inspiration values increased but other values drastically dived (Air rating from 70 to 40). That's strange because after the transfer he should not forget how to fly. Not OK [;)]

I agree this is just a tiny "issue" and not so important in view of other changes you're introducing. But this gives a nice feeling to the game.

[michaelm75au]

I will be looking at this when I get a chance. I'll look at what the current criteria is for locking the leader values.

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: viberpol

Curioser and curioser... [;)]

Michael, this is under "j" test patch.

I successfully managed to transfer my elite leader between groups and forced him to lead the other group... BUT... take a closer look at his stats.

They all changed after transfer! [&:]

That's the same ENS Endo Y. first leading Nisshin-1 group and below after transfer to Shoho-1 group. He changed rank, leadership, air and all other values [:D]

Also: no signs of other elite leaders that Tracker says are available... Fuchida, Genda etc.

Saves will follow in the next posts.

I transferred Endo without him changing values or rank.
Were the transfer done in the same turn?

[viberpol]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

I transferred Endo without him changing values or rank.
Were the transfer done in the same turn?

Well, yes.

I attached two saves, before and after transfer and those two were made during a single turn, of the same date.

[viberpol]

ORIGINAL: michaelm
I transferred Endo without him changing values or rank.
Were the transfer done in the same turn?

On second thought... Michael, did you transfer Endo directly by choosing another leader?
I couldn't do it directly, because he still wasn't visible as being available.

ORIGINAL: viberpol
Also: no signs of other elite leaders that Tracker says are available... Fuchida, Genda etc.

So I have chosen other squadron lead by a pilot, transfered Endo between squadrons as a pilot and then sent the current leader to Training Command to release the leader post which after two or three other pilots has been granted to Endo.

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: viberpol

ORIGINAL: michaelm
I transferred Endo without him changing values or rank.
Were the transfer done in the same turn?

On second thought... Michael, did you transfer Endo directly by choosing another leader?
I couldn't do it directly, because he still wasn't visible as being available.

ORIGINAL: viberpol
Also: no signs of other elite leaders that Tracker says are available... Fuchida, Genda etc.

So I have chosen other squadron lead by a pilot, transfered Endo between squadrons as a pilot and then sent the current leader to Training Command to release the leader post which after two or three other pilots has been granted to Endo.

Yep.
I Clicked on Endo in Nissan-1, going to the leader screen. Then picked another leader and said done.
Then went to Shoho, clicked its leader, and selected Endo from screen, and Done.

I tried your way. Transfer Endo as a pilot first and then de-leadered the group. Still came out okay.

I think I know the reason why you can't see some pilots. There was a bug where pilots in Training Command didn't show up.
Also why leaders aren't showing. Some leaders that moved between units retained their move lock-out so didn't show in free leader list. Also there is a max rank limit on the group leader list; I have bumped the highest rank up across all nationalities.

[viberpol]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Yep.
I Clicked on Endo in Nissan-1, going to the leader screen. Then picked another leader and said done.
Then went to Shoho, clicked its leader, and selected Endo from screen, and Done.

I think I know the reason why you can't see some pilots. There was a bug where pilots in Training Command didn't show up.
Also why leaders aren't showing. Some leaders that moved between units retained their move lock-out so didn't show in free leader list.

You're right.
If I change the leader and do not transfer leader as a pilot, it works. And values are not changed.
I also confirm that more pilots appeared in TRACOM after applying j patch (so some may have been hidden).

But even under j2 patch there are still no available leaders that are shown in Tracker (Genda/Fuchida etc.).
See below.

[michaelm75au]

Also why leaders aren't showing. Some leaders that moved between units retained their move lock-out so didn't show in free leader list. Also there is a max rank limit on the group leader list; I have bumped the highest rank up across all nationalities.
I'll be updating the 'short-term' EXE in a few days to include this last change.

[viberpol]

ORIGINAL: viberpol
But even under j2 patch there are still no available leaders that are shown in Tracker (Genda/Fuchida etc.).

id est. Miyauchi, Nonaka, Igarashi and all of 70-ish air (or of this sort) rating that Tracker shows... (see 4th post in this thread)