Creating the best swamp fighting unit.

[bloomstombs2]

Hey guys. Maybe someone can help me out here. What attachment would best help infantry in swamp fighting?

Im trying to make a strategy which requires effective swamp fighting. From what Ive read here and in manual, infantry seems to be the best option, as motorized and mechanized units suffer huge MP penalties.

My strategy is to blitz towards leningrad, then build up the trainlines , THEN rail up infantry units and drop them off by the swamps, and keep marching .

I think this would be the fastest attack plan towards leningrad.

Discuss.[:'(]

[bloomstombs2]

While we are at it, will a stug attachment to a infantry unit slow it down a bunch in swamps?

[Mynok]

Don't know about the support units as I've not studied their effects on swamp attacks, but Pioniere are always helpful in the attack, especially against fortified hexes, which those swamps up there will almost certainly be by the time you get there. Against a non-swamp fortified hex, Stugs for sure.

One thing (which I plan to do at some point) is to turn up the detail of your combat messages for some combats. The testers have said this will provide the best insight into how things work in combat and what works best in different situations.

[bloomstombs2]

Ive played it with the highest detail.

Takes about 20 minutes for 1 battle to resolve. And its DETAILED!

You see every aspect of the battle. You can almost picture the ground troops getting closer and closer to their enemy.

Meanwhile the howitzers are firing at max distance, picking guys off.

I dont do it justice with my short play by play, but its quite indepth.

[2ndACR]

Best is to isolate and then pop them. I have not mastered how to isolate Leningrad. I get bogged down in the damn swamps myself. 1 hex per turn. Most of the time, I can blow a single hole thru his line and then my armor only advances 2-3 hexes and then I have to open the corridor wider next turn, spend a turn shifting infantry up and then repeat. I have no clue how people do it. Lucky I guess.

[2ndACR]

But the best thing is avoid the swamps. I have toyed with the idea of infantry only towards Leningrad and shift all my armor towards Veli Luki and then combined with AGC armor sweep north towards the border. Only problem is my flanks will be wide open.

[Senno]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

But the best thing is avoid the swamps. I have toyed with the idea of infantry only towards Leningrad and shift all my armor towards Veli Luki and then combined with AGC armor sweep north towards the border. Only problem is my flanks will be wide open.

Versus the AI this creates an awesome pocket, which easily clears out the "ledge" that develops as you send AGN north and AGC west. Makes the northern envelopment of Moscow fairly simple as well, with 2nd Panzer coming in from Tula or thereabouts to complete the Southern pincer. I send 2nd Army into the void at VL also, as once you get more towards Vile Luki the terrain is fair for infantry to move fairly quickly.

Against the AI, I have gone for the big solution in most cases, and not really suffered any ill consequences. In PBEM, I expect that would be not so great, but vs AI it's a killer. I've done it on easy, and now twice on normal with grand results. Next game will move up in difficulty, so results may vary on higher AI settings.

[Mynok]

The only successes I've had against Leningrad were to push armor east of Lake Ilmen (sp?) up through the forests to the Finnish border. It still can be stopped as panzers are none too good in forest either, but it's much better than swamps. The big problem is guarding your flanks and this is unresolvable. Even with all the inf div reinforcements heading there from OKH, there's not enough grunts in 16th army to cover it successfully against a determined human.

[Bentley264]

Did it vs normal AI in the campaign last night.  Your goal is to kill any of the fortified zones to the East of Leningrad and fill it in with Finnish infantry.  This is the only way to block supply to Leningrad.  There is a hidden port on the far west zone that supplies Leningrad, but it will also be out of supply if you connect with the Finns at any point.  Between the swamps, rivers,light forest, and heavy forest (thinks about tanks in heavy forest,  CV=1),  armor and mech is useless.  Send the Panzers south and the infantry north.  I connected on 9/25/41, and immediately Leningrad was totally out of supply.
 
Variants of the "right hook" are discussed in other threads.
 

[Mynok]

Yes, it can be done against the AI. I am quite certain it is impossible against a human with even minimal game ability.

[Q-Ball]

I personally think Leningrad is impossible vs. a human. Part of this is because it is very clearly the #1 desirable objective, unlike the real war. Taking Leningrad is a bonanza, in that it frees the Finns, shortens the line, and the German should be able to defend the area easily. Taking Moscow, on the other hand, creates defensive problems, rather than solves them.

[PeeDeeAitch]

I don't think it is impossible, it has been done in PvP games, but I think it highly unlikely. If the Soviets wish to hold something they can, especially with this kind of terrain. Of course, doing such a massive buildup in the Leningrad region and Moscow might just mean more opportunities elsewhere...

[Mynok]

You don't need a massive buildup really. Just stacks of three digging in while you stop any end run to the Finnish border with rifle divisions in the swamps.

[PeeDeeAitch]

I think that it would have to take massive amounts to hold, if faced with a proper Axis attack. What I mean is a modified Right Hook by both 4th and 3rd PzG, with 18th, 16th, and 9th (part?) being the jab on the left. To stop this, it would take massive Soviet involvement, and that Hook is still a pretty massive force that could just as well go another way. I do not know the feasibility of this, but it could make the Soviet player think long and hard, and that could be the disruptive force needed to do interesting things...

[randallw]

I once allowed Leningrad to be isolated by the computer.  It was very sad to let that happen. 

[heliodorus04]

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch

I don't think it is impossible, it has been done in PvP games, but I think it highly unlikely. If the Soviets wish to hold something they can, especially with this kind of terrain. Of course, doing such a massive buildup in the Leningrad region and Moscow might just mean more opportunities elsewhere...

I wonder if a proper 'house rule' isn't to insist Soviet players not build a row of fortified zones across the Finnish no-move line. Maybe if they have to devote manpower to holding the line against them, the "right hook" becomes a more plausible human-vs.-human strategy?

[bloomstombs2]

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch

I don't think it is impossible, it has been done in PvP games, but I think it highly unlikely. If the Soviets wish to hold something they can, especially with this kind of terrain. Of course, doing such a massive buildup in the Leningrad region and Moscow might just mean more opportunities elsewhere...

I wonder if a proper 'house rule' isn't to insist Soviet players not build a row of fortified zones across the Finnish no-move line. Maybe if they have to devote manpower to holding the line against them, the "right hook" becomes a more plausible human-vs.-human strategy?

House rule should be to at least match each counter with 1 division on that border.