Four-stack conversions

[Ambassador]

Hello guys,

I was wondering if there's a general consensus on the conversions of the old four-stackers. DE, DMS, APD, etc - there're numerous options. So, what do you do ?

Do you convert most of them or only a part ?
Do you start conversions in '41-'42 or do you wait for replacement DD's to fill their place ?
Do you split the conversions across the types, or do you focus on DE ? APD ? DMS ?

Thank you for sharing your experiences.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

Hello guys,

I was wondering if there's a general consensus on the conversions of the old four-stackers. DE, DMS, APD, etc - there're numerous options. So, what do you do ?

Do you convert most of them or only a part ?
Do you start conversions in '41-'42 or do you wait for replacement DD's to fill their place ?
Do you split the conversions across the types, or do you focus on DE ? APD ? DMS ?

Thank you for sharing your experiences.

APDs, early.

[Smeulders]

Many people prefer the APD conversions. Can't blame them, those things are very useful for supplying smaller bases that might be in enemy air range. Personally, I convert them to DE as soon as possible. It increases their range and makes them very useful for rear area convoy protection.

[crsutton]

Herwin is right. You will need every APD that you can lay your hands on. They are the only ships that the Allies can use for fast transport type missions that I know of. This will leave you short of escorts early in the game but that void will fill up quickly by late 1942.

(edit) I forgot that AVDs can be used in fast transport convoys to carry supply.

[Nomad]

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

Many people prefer the APD conversions. Can't blame them, those things are very useful for supplying smaller bases that might be in enemy air range. Personally, I convert them to DE as soon as possible. It increases their range and makes them very useful for rear area convoy protection.

This what I have done, but I am not sure it is right. I didn't realize that Allied DDs could not load troops in a FT TF.

[Ambassador]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Herwin is right. You will need every APD that you can lay your hands on. They are the only ships that the Allies can use for fast transport type missions that I know of. This will leave you short of escorts early in the game but that void will fill up quickly by late 1942.

My first thoughts were to convert most to APD or DE, 2/3-1/3 approximately, but I did not know when.

On a slightly related note, if I convert a DD first to DE, could I convert it later to an APD, or does the game limit us to one conversion per ship ?

ORIGINAL: Nomad

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

Many people prefer the APD conversions. Can't blame them, those things are very useful for supplying smaller bases that might be in enemy air range. Personally, I convert them to DE as soon as possible. It increases their range and makes them very useful for rear area convoy protection.

This what I have done, but I am not sure it is right. I didn't realize that Allied DDs could not load troops in a FT TF.

I didn't know that either. I understand why my fast transports in the DEI could not load LCUs I was trying to evacuate...

[AW1Steve]

APD's. Every 5th , I convert to AVD. I convert all "Bird" class AM's to AVP's, and I convert as many AK's to AKE's and AKV's as I can.APD's are great , not only as fast transports, but their ASW rating is very high. In essense, you have fast,self escorting troopers. AVD's and AVP's for every pinprick beach that you want to stash flying boats , and to augment airbases for support (again of flying boats). YOU NEVER have enough AE's or AKE's, especially for re-loading bombardment groups.

[pmath]

I agree with everything said above. Here is the issues:

You are compelled to convert as soon as possible due to the precious ASW improvement. The only dilemma is whether to convert some to DEs. The only significant advantage of DEs is better AA and torps. APDs on the other hand are much more versatile. Their flank speed of 27 knotts allows you to use them as ASW fleets supporting battle groups. They also provide asw and sea lift for small troop capacity units. Combined w/AKs can even enable lift of units that have large cargo requirement w/o tying up precious APs and freeing up other limited asw assets at the same time. They are also the vehicle of choice for your raider lcus allowing you to deploy or invade with them rapidly over great distance. Once the ASW upgrade is available for your DDS, they will do anything a DE does better than the DE, but they still won't carry troops.

[Nomad]

Just one thought on this. I do not believe that APD crews will train past 45 without surface combat. DEs will train to 55 by just sailing about.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Just one thought on this. I do not believe that APD crews will train past 45 without surface combat. DEs will train to 55 by just sailing about.

It is a matter of taste. While I chose early on to convert all four stacker DDs that I could to DEs in my two campaigns, I now regret it. The DEs were useful and helped early on but it is now mid 1943 and I have plenty of escorts but only three APDs left. I would gladly trade an old BB for six APDs right now. The Allies do not get any significant APD reinforcments until 1944, and unlike the Japanese who can use just about anything for fast transport, the Allies don't get anything else.

[vettim89]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Just one thought on this. I do not believe that APD crews will train past 45 without surface combat. DEs will train to 55 by just sailing about.

It is a matter of taste. While I chose early on to convert all four stacker DDs that I could to DEs in my two campaigns, I now regret it. The DEs were useful and helped early on but it is now mid 1943 and I have plenty of escorts but only three APDs left. I would gladly trade an old BB for six APDs right now. The Allies do not get any significant APD reinforcments until 1944, and unlike the Japanese who can use just about anything for fast transport, the Allies don't get anything else.

Think I agree more with crsutton here (which is bad because Nomad is my 2x2 PBEM partner - sorry Ken) While initially the Allies have an escort shortage, that starts to ease off pretty quickly with the arrival of the Fletcher class DD's in mid '42. You also start getting a lot of SC around that time also. So while the DE conversion fills in an important hole in the Allied OOB, that hole gets filled pretty quickly by other units. The APD's, on the other hand, are irreplaceable until '44.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

Many people prefer the APD conversions. Can't blame them, those things are very useful for supplying smaller bases that might be in enemy air range. Personally, I convert them to DE as soon as possible. It increases their range and makes them very useful for rear area convoy protection.

This what I have done, but I am not sure it is right. I didn't realize that Allied DDs could not load troops in a FT TF.

done exactly the same... and regretted it... [:D] I would go with APD now...

[Ambassador]

Thank you all, you've convinced me to abandon the idea of the DE.  Since no one spoke about DMS, I believe nobody sees this conversion as useful...
 
Nomad, I suppose that letting them sail (as DDs, escorting convoys) until they get to 55 XP before converting them to APD would take too long ?  Anyway, is there really such a difference between 45 and 55 for APD ?

[Nomad]

ORIGINAL: vettim89

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Just one thought on this. I do not believe that APD crews will train past 45 without surface combat. DEs will train to 55 by just sailing about.

It is a matter of taste. While I chose early on to convert all four stacker DDs that I could to DEs in my two campaigns, I now regret it. The DEs were useful and helped early on but it is now mid 1943 and I have plenty of escorts but only three APDs left. I would gladly trade an old BB for six APDs right now. The Allies do not get any significant APD reinforcments until 1944, and unlike the Japanese who can use just about anything for fast transport, the Allies don't get anything else.

Think I agree more with crsutton here (which is bad because Nomad is my 2x2 PBEM partner - sorry Ken) While initially the Allies have an escort shortage, that starts to ease off pretty quickly with the arrival of the Fletcher class DD's in mid '42. You also start getting a lot of SC around that time also. So while the DE conversion fills in an important hole in the Allied OOB, that hole gets filled pretty quickly by other units. The APD's, on the other hand, are irreplaceable until '44.

I was only trying to make sure that everyone had all the facts. I probably would now convert most if not all to APDs, but everyone needs to be aware that an APD will not function as well in an ASW role as a DE would.

[Nomad]

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

Thank you all, you've convinced me to abandon the idea of the DE.  Since no one spoke about DMS, I believe nobody sees this conversion as useful...

Nomad, I suppose that letting them sail (as DDs, escorting convoys) until they get to 55 XP before converting them to APD would take too long ?  Anyway, is there really such a difference between 45 and 55 for APD ?

eeping in mind that before 1944 USN ships will have their experience multiplied by 150% for ASW at night, then 45 will be increased to 67 and 55 will be increased to 82. That will be an 15 increase in effective experience for ASW. It depends on how you look at, but yes it could be a significant difference.

[John Lansford]

I went about 60/40 with converting the 4 stackers to APD/DE, and I regret that I didn't convert more to DE.  Their range is vastly increased, they get tons of ASW points, and I've found the loss of fast transport ability is not a big deal by 1944.  Having long range, heavily armed ASW ships in '42 and '43 was very helpful, I now wish I'd had more of them.

[Mac Linehan]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

Many people prefer the APD conversions. Can't blame them, those things are very useful for supplying smaller bases that might be in enemy air range. Personally, I convert them to DE as soon as possible. It increases their range and makes them very useful for rear area convoy protection.

This what I have done, but I am not sure it is right. I didn't realize that Allied DDs could not load troops in a FT TF.

Nomad -

Neither did I, until your post.

Thank You,

Mac

[bigred]

What happens when you miss a upgrade month?  How many months is the window open for the upgrade?

[SuluSea]

ORIGINAL: bigred

What happens when you miss a upgrade month?  How many months is the window open for the upgrade?

From what I've seen the window stays open until an upgrade is determined. I've had DDs I couldn't spare miss their upgrades by months.

[witpqs]

Be careful - if you miss certain upgrades then you can lose certain conversion choices. This might be dependent upon how it's coded in the scenario, but it has happened to me (it was scenario 1).

I had some four-stackers that needed to have a certain upgrade before they were eligible to convert to DE's. They missed that upgrade and it was combined into a subsequent upgrade. The problem is that the the last upgrade in the sequence (which was all done in one turn) turned them into the DDLR variant (still a DD with crappy ASW, but longer range).

If you have something that you want to convert, be careful about not missing the dates!