Accelerating plane research

[pacificbetta]

Has anyone been able to accelerate a plane beyond its precessor model? Eg, is there a case of accelerating Ki-84r Frank before Ki84a Frank, or even has anyone accelerated it before Ki-84b Frank which is not in the actual upgrade path?

[Hanzberger]

I am wondering the same thing. And since we are on the subject, does anyone know if=I mass produce a plane, do I need groups to fly them or is it just a waste of time. I realize you need pilots, but I was laying in bed wondering, ok if I mass produce this plane (and not produce others) but have no groups to fly them then what is the use? Will I end up with a lot of planes sitting around, and if that is true then you might as well play the Japan side with PDU off, sure you can speed up some stuff but you cant really take a whole different approach.

[CV2]

My understanding is you can only advance a plane 3 months. Now if anyone has gotten 4 or more, I'd like to hear it, because I personally have never seen it.

[gajdacs zsolt]

You can advance it a lot more....I did a 5 month acceleration of the A6M4 in the Reluctant Admiral mod. And this is not much! I could easily avance up the ki-44c by one year, only limited by a HR...

And there's more: You could easily move up the ki-100 by one and a half, maybe even two years (it's another question that in this game the plane just doesn't worth it )

[pacificbetta]

And there's more: You could easily move up the ki-100 by one and a half, maybe even two years (it's another question that in this game the plane just doesn't worth it )

Is this a confirmed thing? Cos if you accelerate Ki-100 by 18 mths, it will leapfrog its "earlier" model. Ki-100 II seems like a most worthy plane, almost on par with Frank in stats and it has a service rating of only 1......

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: CV2

My understanding is you can only advance a plane 3 months. Now if anyone has gotten 4 or more, I'd like to hear it, because I personally have never seen it.

I've done it many times in both witp and ae ...

[Hanzberger]

How did you do it Damian, just use multiple RD centers? What about the leap frog approach?

[offenseman]

Damian, in Tracker, is there a way to see how far along R&D is?  i.e. You can see that 87 R&D Tojos have been completed?  BTW, Tracker is incredible.  Thanks to you and Floyd.

[Hanzberger]

bump

[darbycmcd]

I would just caution that many players consider the leapfrog gambit on the very far side of gamey. If you are in a PBEM I would definately check with the other player before you do anything really radical. Some don't mind, but some will have a very serious problem with it.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: darbymcd

I would just caution that many players consider the leapfrog gambit on the very far side of gamey. If you are in a PBEM I would definately check with the other player before you do anything really radical. Some don't mind, but some will have a very serious problem with it.

True. Good point. Worth a discussion with one's PBEM partner.

I used to believe this myself as a Japanese player. However, one of my PBEM partners' use of 4EB Allied heavy bombers in a 'bomber sweep' approach convinced me that I could use any and all tools within the game model to challenge this effort. We are moving forward assuming that anything that was not in our HRs at the beginning of the game was 'meant to be in the game' and are proceeding accordingly.

Necessity is the mother of invention. My opponent has determined how to use an ahistoric game advantage to his benefit. Awesome. I'll do likewise. Rock-paper-scissors.

Consider this for your accelerated plane research efforts-if your opponent is one to take these approaches or whether he'll be sympathetic to your situation and change his uses accordingly. You're not without recourse.

Against the AI, of course, all bets are off. The AI cheats like a mother-******. Don't even think about fighting fair. Do anything and everything you possibly can to break it.

[Numdydar]

Can someone please explain in detail how a plane was accelerated beyond the three month window?

In my game I started increasing the number of factories 'building' a R&D plane. It is currently 9/7/1942 and since the beginng of the game, I have gone from 'building' 0/month to 35/month and the plane is still stuck at the same availability date with no change for 3 months at least (I still have a lot of factories to go from 'repairing' to building' too). Plenty of the engines it needs so not a question of lack of engines.

So while I can increase the number of factories to reseach the plane, it still takes time to 'repair' the expansion (lees than 1 a day for some reason). However factories that are producing available planes in the same base CAN repair at 1 a day with no issue (Base has 35,00 supplies so I doubt that is an issue and it is in Japan proper so no issue with fuel/resource transport or availability.).

Any comments or suggestions?

Edit:
Doing the calculations, I have 'built' 116 over the course of the game so I should have gotten at least 1 month of advancement, correct?

[Hanzberger]

You need 100 (pts?) to advance a month, I think. I think the 'pts' are in a lock box so there is no way of telling. I will be following this thread. I would think that you would have moved up at least one month.

[d0mbo]

Numdyar: you only get points from COMPLETED factories
e.g. 1(0) or 20(0) will give 21 points R&D each month,
99(1) and1(29) will give you exactly.... zero points.
And the repairrate is based on a) how far in the future is the model you researching? (further away = slower repair) and b) are the repair criteria met (10.000 supply) and c) Gary Grigby's imfamous dice roll a.k.a. luck.


I changed a lot of factories and found out they don't really repair fast as i am probably researching too late a model. I should have gone for the closer models and changing the factories one month before whatever they were researching is avaiable. Anyway, in my current PBEM i messed R&D up as i didn;t understand the rules well. Oh well, we shall see what happens

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Can someone please explain in detail how a plane was accelerated beyond the three month window?

In my game I started increasing the number of factories 'building' a R&D plane. It is currently 9/7/1942 and since the beginng of the game, I have gone from 'building' 0/month to 35/month and the plane is still stuck at the same availability date with no change for 3 months at least (I still have a lot of factories to go from 'repairing' to building' too). Plenty of the engines it needs so not a question of lack of engines.

So while I can increase the number of factories to reseach the plane, it still takes time to 'repair' the expansion (lees than 1 a day for some reason). However factories that are producing available planes in the same base CAN repair at 1 a day with no issue (Base has 35,00 supplies so I doubt that is an issue and it is in Japan proper so no issue with fuel/resource transport or availability.).

Any comments or suggestions?

Edit:
Doing the calculations, I have 'built' 116 over the course of the game so I should have gotten at least 1 month of advancement, correct?

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


Against the AI, of course, all bets are off. The AI cheats like a mother-******. Don't even think about fighting fair. Do anything and everything you possibly can to break it.

Yep, just throw Andy under the bus (again)! [:D][:D][:D]

PS: Have to admit, some of his AI routines are so fiendish. [&o][&o][&o]

[fcharton]

ORIGINAL: d0mbo
Numdyar: you only get points from COMPLETED factories
e.g. 1(0) or 20(0) will give 21 points R&D each month,
99(1) and1(29) will give you exactly.... zero points.

If this is so, the trick to get planes sooner is to get many small factories research the same plane, rather than large ones. 20 factories at 0 (5) will certainly repair, and therefore research faster than one at 0 (100)...

Question : are the R&D points earned each month (only????) ?

Francois

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: d0mbo

Numdyar: you only get points from COMPLETED factories
e.g. 1(0) or 20(0) will give 21 points R&D each month,
99(1) and1(29) will give you exactly.... zero points.
And the repairrate is based on a) how far in the future is the model you researching? (further away = slower repair) and b) are the repair criteria met (10.000 supply) and c) Gary Grigby's imfamous dice roll a.k.a. luck.


I changed a lot of factories and found out they don't really repair fast as i am probably researching too late a model. I should have gone for the closer models and changing the factories one month before whatever they were researching is avaiable. Anyway, in my current PBEM i messed R&D up as i didn;t understand the rules well. Oh well, we shall see what happens

Let me see if I have this right. If ANY R&D factory is under repair X(Y) then you get NO points towards that planes R&D? Obviously this is NOT the way factories that are actually building planes work (thank God [:)]). But in a R&D factory that is X(0) then I get X points toward research every month?

So two questions (which I do not expect to be answered btw)

1. Why are the two types of factories (production and R&D) handled so differently?
2. Why is not any of this clearly explained somewhere? At least I could not find it and believe me I looked.

Thanks for the info. Now if I could convince my opponent to strat over again [:D] What's another year of RL anyway

[USSAmerica]

I've never played the Japanese side, so I have no first hand experience with AC research.  I can answer question 2 in the above post:

"2. Why is not any of this clearly explained somewhere? At least I could not find it and believe me I looked."

If every nuance of this magnificent game were clearly documented and explained in the manual (completely ignoring all the things that have changed with multiple patches) the manual would be the size of the Encyclopedia Britannica.  [:D]

There is just WAY too much detail that happens behind the scenes in our beloved game to get it all down in writing.  Besides, that's half of the fun on the forums, exercising the game and learning new nuggets about it.  [8D]

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: USS America

I've never played the Japanese side, so I have no first hand experience with AC research.  I can answer question 2 in the above post:

"2. Why is not any of this clearly explained somewhere? At least I could not find it and believe me I looked."

If every nuance of this magnificent game were clearly documented and explained in the manual (completely ignoring all the things that have changed with multiple patches) the manual would be the size of the Encyclopedia Britannica.  [:D]

There is just WAY too much detail that happens behind the scenes in our beloved game to get it all down in writing.  Besides, that's half of the fun on the forums, exercising the game and learning new nuggets about it.  [8D]

For the most part I totally agree with your comments above. However, something that imho is this critical for the Japanese player deserves some mention of how it works rather than having the player assume that both sets of factories work in the same way (which is what I did unfortunately). If both factory types worked the same way, then I agree there is no reason to spell it out again. But because there is a HUGE difference in the way they work, then that difference should be described somewhere where people can find it easily.

Just my 2 cents worth [:)]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar
Let me see if I have this right. If ANY R&D factory is under repair X(Y) then you get NO points towards that planes R&D? Obviously this is NOT the way factories that are actually building planes work (thank God [:)]). But in a R&D factory that is X(0) then I get X points toward research every month?

Yes, your understanding is correct. Hence the benefits of a smaller factory size, but more of them.

So two questions (which I do not expect to be answered btw)

1. Why are the two types of factories (production and R&D) handled so differently?

Idunno (shrugs shoulders) [&:]

2. Why is not any of this clearly explained somewhere? At least I could not find it and believe me I looked.

Idunno (shrugs shoulders) [&:]

Thanks for the info. Now if I could convince my opponent to strat over again [:D] What's another year of RL anyway

How far along are you in the game? If not far, it may still be recoverable.

Don't forget (major consolation to JFBs that botched their early war production [looks at self...is disgusted...looks away]) that you STILL get airframes and / or engines delivered to you on the historical date, regardless of whether you researched them or not. So you can't do worse than historical.