Bombur mod obsolete.....

[Bombur]

srndac has just launched an excellent update of my mod for random scenarios. First impression is that the game is a big improvement over Bombur mod. It is already in the scenario bank.

[Vic]

dont forget to do reviews on the scenario bank site!

its the only way for players not reading these forums to know which scenarios they should play

furthermore if you really feel your scenario is obsolete you can always delete it.

and damn.. i wish i had the time to personally try out all scenarios!

best regards,
Vic

[srndac]

Hello Vic!

I'm having some trouble over here - the research is costlier than King's Ransom - even though the prices are similar to those in the 'vanilla' AT.
Could you give me a hand?
I'm trying to figure out the ResProdRelMod - the production power modifier on research - how does it work?

Thanks in advance
srndac

[Vic]

ORIGINAL: srndac

Hello Vic!

I'm having some trouble over here - the research is costlier than King's Ransom - even though the prices are similar to those in the 'vanilla' AT.
Could you give me a hand?
I'm trying to figure out the ResProdRelMod - the production power modifier on research - how does it work?

Thanks in advance
srndac

Basicly if all the production points on the map are equal to the resprodrelmod then research cost will stay the same. if not it will be modified in appropriate direction (cheaper or more expensive)

best,
vic

[Bombur]

ORIGINAL: Vic

dont forget to do reviews on the scenario bank site!

its the only way for players not reading these forums to know which scenarios they should play

furthermore if you really feel your scenario is obsolete you can always delete it.

and damn.. i wish i had the time to personally try out all scenarios!

best regards,
Vic

Well, I´m still not ready to resign to my best scenario....but srndac mod seems to be an improvement over my own, and if it survives playtest...well. For now I have the feeling that Bombur mod is better for long campaigns with an emphasis in naval battles. The naval combat in srndac´s version seems to be too bloody, and the game goes a lot faster.

[Bombur]

Upgraded Bombur mod, not sure what will be its future....we´re running games with both Bombur mod and srndac version...Bombur mod seems to be working well for WWII units.

[theonlystd]

Been playing srndacs mod alot . Fun fun
 
 
Im not sure what kind of control you have over the Ai or care to correct it at all
 
One of the biggist problems with it currently is . It builds like an insane amount of trucks.

[Jeffrey H.]

That's good feedback. I'm currently in one PBEM game with this mod and we've not gotten too far into the tech tree and I'm not sure if there is an AI in the game. I know srndac had discovered some insights into the build AI behavior and incorporated them into his mod.

One of the big problems with the produciton AI in general is it's lack of feedback on what it has vs. what it thinks it needs. It tends to dive off the deep end and build mass quanitities of things it already has.

[theonlystd]

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

That's good feedback. I'm currently in one PBEM game with this mod and we've not gotten too far into the tech tree and I'm not sure if there is an AI in the game. I know srndac had discovered some insights into the build AI behavior and incorporated them into his mod.

One of the big problems with the produciton AI in general is it's lack of feedback on what it has vs. what it thinks it needs. It tends to dive off the deep end and build mass quanitities of things it already has.

Well got plenty of feed back me and a friend have played multiple games with the AI. Tho not sure if anyones interested in it or if he can even do anything about it.


Ai seems to armor happy its into 1942 vechicles while still with the start arty and infantry..

I've destroyed more armor than machine guns. It doesnt appear to build arty at all.. And considering how good counter battery is.. Even if the Ai doesnt use it right offensively it would be effective for causing attirtion in my arty stacks if it built any ..


It disperses its armour to thinly among the divisions.. 1,2 Heavy tanks in a division type thing.. And as said get it to stop building trucks! I see a stack of 800 Trucks in one of its citys which i guess is what you were talking about..

[Bombur]

I think it is useless any attempt to make these complex mods AI compatible. The AI simply lacks the understanding of how to use the new units. The AI also hates to build artillery (this is a sure path to defeat in the early game). My future Bombur mod for AT Gold will use only 1930-1950 units and won´t be AI compatible.

[srndac]

thnx!
always nice to know my work is appreciated! [8D]

This is actually my version of bombur's mod - I've been nagging him about things I thought should be changed like forever - but in the end I went and did them myself. Sorta to give him the idea ... glad he took it so well. Well, mostly ...

Anyway - being a 'hardcore' (pun intended) wargamer means that AT is mostly low-ranked on my list as it is ... and when I happen to have two (or more) interests (in addition to AT) running around my head at the same time, it usually means that most of my PBEM opponents find themselves waiting 4 or 5 days for me to return their savegames ... as it happened today for example ... [8|]

So - yeah, there probably is a solution to the problem ... but currently I can't (well - won't actually) spare the time for anything other than the devilish desire that draws me to the sinful pleasures of that "other woman" ... so - if you want to fix the problem - stop nagging and go to work! [:D]

You never know ... Maybe we'll be playing theonlystd's mod sometime soon ... [;)]

cheers!
srndac

[Jeffrey H.]

Actually, I'm not so negative about the AI behavior with the new units, it's something of an odd twist and extends out the original unit set, it's still fun.

What I don't like is some of the intrinsic habits of the AI that seem to be fixable but don't get any attention.

[Bombur]

Actually srndac reworked my mod to such an extent that it deserves to be called srndac mod[:D]. I believe that, overall, he introduced a lot of improvements. At first glance, I believed it could replace completely my own mod, however, it would be better to say that both mods deserve to survive. My own mod will probably work better in long campaigns with epic naval battles. srndac mod will work much faster, as the combat system (the naval one in particular) is very bloody and it will be hard to build big fleets due to supply constraints, so it will be better for fast games with a smaller naval component. Of course, it is still an hypothesis and I´m testing it against srndac himself. Up to now we are planning to use common graphics for both mods so it will make download easier and also spares HD space.

[srndac]

ORIGINAL: Bombur
srndac mod will work much faster, as the combat system (the naval one in particular) is very bloody and it will be hard to build big fleets due to supply constraints, so it will be better for fast games with a smaller naval component.

Oh I don't know ... this is one of the reasons why I have 'bolstered' the production, after all ...
I have already made a quick test of naval battles of my own - with 10 sides (8 AI and little ol' me playing both humans) on a mostly-sea random map. Research was pretty cheap (the more players, the cheaper it gets) and both 'humans' ended up with:
about 4 or 5 Major Capitols (25k production each) spewing about 2 or 3 BB/BC or (later) 5 or 6 CV's (+air) each turn PLUS 8 to 10 Capitols or Cities spewing about 10 to 15 'light' (CA/CL/DD) stuff each turn and 20-ish villages supplying the whole lot of 'em ...

Besides, if you look at the production and troop equivalents, it turns out that one Major Capitol can turn out (at most) an Infantry Division each turn ... which is not that grand a figure in any case ... so why should navy be any different?

cheers!
srndac

P.S. pre-WW1 German Division: 2 Infantry Brigades of 2 Regiments of 3 Battalions at 1000 men & 4 MG + 1 Cavalry Regiment of 1000 men + 1 Artillery Regiment of 72 guns + horses & staff = 60 rifle, 3 MG, 5 Cavalry, 4 Artillery, 7 Horse & 20 Staff = about 24000 production points ... whaddaya know - I got it right! Woooooohooooooo! [:D]

[Bombur]

Sure, it will be easier to build big fleets, but will you be able to keep them supplied? If you lack the supplies to feed your wonderful BB´s then there is no point in building them (on the other side, these things are really expensive to keep). The best fix would be to make ships easy to keep when in ports and very expensive when they start combat operations, this will be done in AT Gold....