Rare AA experiment that doesnt work

[guctony]

To all fellow IJ players. I tried to counter magnificent B-17 manace with buying all AA units from japan and puting them in shortland in the hopes of creating a fortress of air defence. To my amusement: That did not work. opponent struck with apox 100 bombers mainly B-17 and B-24 in daylight without any decent fighter cover. result 300 Fighter destroyed on ground at a cost of 30 US heavy bomber. only 9 is claimed by flak. which means dispersal is the only solution. and by the way Ki 46 KAI and Ki-45 dont strech the paint of them.

Wow we need "I need" some better solution to B-17 manace. I thik that is dog on the tail solution

Still destroying 30 heavy bomber a day should Brass my stars. But it does not

I belive there is a AA limit in the land action like best 15 ship will include in TF AA defence. Or else 500 AA gun means there is no space where A-17 coulf fly without get hit

[erstad]

What altitude were the heavies flying at?

[Smeulders]

Edit: never mind, too slow

[guctony]

ORIGINAL: erstad

What altitude were the heavies flying at?

You dont like the answer as I did not . 10 000 feet well int reach of 75 and 100mm AA guns

[guctony]

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

Edit: never mind, too slow

pardon me...!!!

[darbycmcd]

You shot down 30% of his force, that is very good. Ok you lost a bunch of planes, but you can make those up. He can't run too many of those raids. One problem is you are very densely packed in that hex, so yes some dispersion would be good. But if you can get him to launch a couple more raids like that you will basically absorb his entire 4E offensive potential. don't overstack so much to lower your losses and just run up your production a bit. Get him to attack you in a place of your choosing, like this, and he will have no ability to do anything more destructive elsewhere. i mean really, he is using all that airpower to hit SHORTLANDS and kill airplanes, you should be super happy. you can replace losses almost as much as you want and shortlands is not exactly a critical point.

[JohnDillworth]

I don't know how it shows up on the opponents combat reports bu flak sometimes has a delayed effect. In addition to the 9 destroyed, he may have suffered significant operational losses. These would be bomber that got torn up an will never fly again. I have limited experience as the Japanese, but as an Allied player in 1945 I had a lot of bombers come back and never fly again.

[Cavalry Corp]

9 by flak that sounds pretty good! 30 in one raid that sounds great- why do you leave so many planes on the ground?

You ust have damaged many more and that will slow them right down

Cav

[Shark7]

He was probably over-stacked and they didn't fly.

As far as the AAA goes, anything smaller than about 75mm is pretty much useless on a high level raid, since the game limits their ceiling to 8000 feet, check the DB to see for yourself.

[guctony]

ORIGINAL: cavalry

9 by flak that sounds pretty good! 30 in one raid that sounds great- why do you leave so many planes on the ground?

You ust have damaged many more and that will slow them right down

Cav

I think it is the end of a time. I had just prefered to focus units to one area for combat and coordination efficiency. And up to now it worked. It is a bit unrealistict but was efficient. Now dangerous. Hope some exprienced pilot went down also. Shortly shortland was filled with Ki-44s which is also unrealistict. But is seems IJA planes deal with US Navy better where as IJN planes deal with US army plane in slight disadvantage.

[Cavalry Corp]

So the japs need to look at which flak is where - they have some nice 88mm those are the best guns . The small AA units should go to cover land units etc.

300 planes at shortland sounds a lot ...

[guctony]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

He was probably over-stacked and they didn't fly.

As far as the AAA goes, anything smaller than about 75mm is pretty much useless on a high level raid, since the game limits their ceiling to 8000 feet, check the DB to see for yourself.

He was probably over-stacked and they didn't fly.

As far as the AAA goes, anything smaller than about 75mm is pretty much useless on a high level raid, since the game limits their ceiling to 8000 feet, check the DB to see for yourself.

I have halve of the AA power of homeland stack at Shortland. All 100mm and 75mm. The result is 9 flank loss which I have to be contend.

After second thoughts I am contend. If he comes again His force will be out of bussines for two weeks maybe.

[guctony]

ORIGINAL: cavalry

So the japs need to look at which flak is where - they have some nice 88mm those are the best guns . The small AA units should go to cover land units etc.

300 planes at shortland sounds a lot ...

You mean 300 plane at shortland was alot... Please use past tense...

[Chickenboy]

@ guctony,

Sounds like you were overstacked-this will impact your on ground losses and disable your fighter CAP scramble. However, we cannot tell whether this is impacting your game without additional information. A screen shot perhaps of your airfield, base av support, units in operation, their fatigue and morale levels, supply, disruption of your AAA units, etc. etc would be helpful.

[crsutton]

Well, it is just a test guys, and it is unlikely that many J fans will stack all of their AA in one hex. But the results are interesting.

Do, you have control over the Allies in your test? I would be interested in seeing the results if the heavies flew lower. Say around 7k.

[witpqs]

Agree with various posts here - the Allies can not sustain 30% losses per raid of 4EB. You got darn effective results.

[guctony]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

@ guctony,

Sounds like you were overstacked-this will impact your on ground losses and disable your fighter CAP scramble. However, we cannot tell whether this is impacting your game without additional information. A screen shot perhaps of your airfield, base av support, units in operation, their fatigue and morale levels, supply, disruption of your AAA units, etc. etc would be helpful.

@ guctony,

Sounds like you were overstacked-this will impact your on ground losses and disable your fighter CAP scramble. However, we cannot tell whether this is impacting your game without additional information. A screen shot perhaps of your airfield, base av support, units in operation, their fatigue and morale levels, supply, disruption of your AAA units, etc. etc would be helpful.

The thing is I am not complaining. I assume it is fairly historical result. In real life no wisehead leader would stuck so many to so little. I can send it the next turn. I did not save it so I have to rerun the turn if you insist.

But to sum up I had fully functioning 75 to 80 level morale and 65 to 70 exprienced unit in Shortland. BUt my downsize was they were 30 CAP, 30 training mode. As I though my opponents playing style I was not expecting such a serious attack. If I may say without his permission He send me the turn stating "wine made me do it". He told me that he was going to try something serious and He was in a rare occasion of drinking wine and playing. I guess wine is as effective as Beer in this game.

[guctony]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well, it is just a test guys, and it is unlikely that many J fans will stack all of their AA in one hex. But the results are interesting.

Do, you have control over the Allies in your test? I would be interested in seeing the results if the heavies flew lower. Say around 7k.

No it is not a test it is new year past 1943 PBEM game. I will ask my opponent to try this experiment. But the result wont be soo different. I suspect His bomber units experince is higher then normal for this period of war. Because I decided not to accept a Uber-fighter attrition war with him. And up to now he was carefull enough to bring his heavies to my bombing range. As a side note ın one year I lost 10 000 planes to his 5000 planes. It was a bloody air war. I assume he had many bombing runs to empty Bases so his pilot expirence in such a high level that I cannot get close to him. I tried Ki-46 kai and Ki-45b to no avail.

As a side note He wipe out 90 two engine Ki-46 Ki-45b force in one bombing run. My total Bombing interceptor force is vanished.

The only real defence against B-17 seems the ability to bomb their Base where ever they are. But I guess this will not be possible with the second halve of the 1943.

Only hope in NK1-j now.

[guctony]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Agree with various posts here - the Allies can not sustain 30% losses per raid of 4EB. You got darn effective results.

Agree with various posts here - the Allies can not sustain 30% losses per raid of 4EB. You got darn effective results.

Ok you are right But if I insist overstaking in 10 raids theorically He can bag up 3000 planes. to his 300.

He will not try it in short term. Bu my intimidating uber-filled base concept has to be changed.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: guctony

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Agree with various posts here - the Allies can not sustain 30% losses per raid of 4EB. You got darn effective results.

Agree with various posts here - the Allies can not sustain 30% losses per raid of 4EB. You got darn effective results.

Ok you are right But if I insist overstaking in 10 raids theorically He can bag up 3000 planes. to his 300.

He will not try it in short term. Bu my intimidating uber-filled base concept has to be changed.

Yup - that's part of the course of things.