Fort Zones Worthless?

[kirkgregerson]

So I'm beginning to wonder if fort zones should be re-evaluated. From what I've read many people, including testers, say they are worthless and would never build them. If this is really the case, then IMO something should be done. Either remove them from the game or adjust fort zones to make them still something of value for the AP cost.

Currently I'm seeing fort zones created as if they are re-constituted units with their morale and exp. A bit odd since I question why the morale of a new German unit in 41 should start with a morale of 45? I thought the national morale was at least 70???

I'm almost in the camp that thinks building fort zones is now a waste. Maybe somebody can change my mind?

Thanks

[Great_Ajax]

Forts are useless if you think they are going to be the next Maginot Line and you plop them down five hexes behind the front line. They are useful in planning long term defensive positions well behind your lines digging into strategic positions.

Trey

[kirkgregerson]

ORIGINAL: el hefe

Forts are useless if you think they are going to be the next Maginot Line and you plop them down five hexes behind the front line. They are useful in planning long term defensive positions well behind your lines digging into strategic positions.

Trey

ok yes I can see that. But why do they start with such low morale? I can understand the low exp.

[cookie monster]

They are fixing the bug that construction units dont aid fort construction when attached to units

When thats fixed NOTHING will make forts quicker and more cheaply than a fort with 3 RR brigades.

This will make them ideal for fortifying the Crimea.

They also have zero'd arty on the higher fort levels.

Shame the ARTY su's will be destroyed on a surrender and not appear in the losses screen.

They can make forts behind the lines at cities with civilian pop assist quite well. They are presently a cheap digging unit.

They can begin the forts on critical hexes such as the hills outside Leningrad before you have any units available.

The late war forts are powerful but not needed when your on the offensive.

[kirkgregerson]

ok, convinced again forts have a place in the game.. especially in v1.04.. which I hope is available soon?

[:D]

but I still think they should start with national morale level

[Aditia]

ORIGINAL: kirkgregerson

ok, convinced again forts have a place in the game.. especially in v1.04.. which I hope is available soon?

[:D]

but I still think they should start with national morale level

Same here! Who wouldn't want to be in the rear with the gear? =P

[Great_Ajax]

Many units arrive with morale less than the national morale. Units will slowly 'train' up to that level.

Trey

ORIGINAL: kirkgregerson

ok, convinced again forts have a place in the game.. especially in v1.04.. which I hope is available soon?

[:D]

but I still think they should start with national morale level

[carnifex]

ORIGINAL: Aditia

ORIGINAL: kirkgregerson

ok, convinced again forts have a place in the game.. especially in v1.04.. which I hope is available soon?

[:D]

but I still think they should start with national morale level

Same here! Who wouldn't want to be in the rear with the gear? =P

The low morale guys that's who The high morale guys are giving each other high-fives on a train bound for Stalingrad.

[Josh]

I build them on a few occasions. Mainly on quite parts of the front where I have a division split into three, and then put them behind a river (or one hex away from that river to lure enemy units). Given some time they can result in some hefty defense value. But in general no Panther line for me, maybe that'll change with new patches.

[Texasgrunt]

I build them (a) to help garrison a town when a regiment is not quite enough, ad (b) when I want to have a second line behind a first thin one. Gives me a turn to plug a breakthru bythe AI - of course a human player will not be stopped by that.

[Helpless]

They start with build national morale level.

Somewhere in manual:

The morale of newly created units is then calculated by taking the build unit morale and multiplying by the morale help level divided by
100. This build morale value is then used in the formula – ((build morale/4) +20) + (rnd((build morale/4) +20)) to derive the unit morale.
This value cannot be less than 20 or greater than 50. The experience for the unit‟s initial ground elements is calculated by taking the
unit‟s morale divided by two and adding five.

[PyleDriver]

I build them in cities where theres only Sec units, as they can only go to level 1 fort.

[mmarquo]

I build them:
 
1. To augment the garrison of a city if only a few more thousand troops are needed to turn it "blue" - rather than wasting another whole mobile unit.
2. To fortify important cities/towns and then disband them before the inevitable assault, leaving mobile unit who can retreat.
3. They are invaluable as the occasional speed bump in tight situations.
 
Marquo

[Tarhunnas]

Just a thought. I think it might be better if FZs were shattered instead of Surrendered when forced to retreat. I mean, just because they are part of an immobile unit doesn't mean everyone is just standing around waiting to be captured when the enemy comes. As they are now, most players just use them for building or garrisoning and disbands them when the enemy comes close.

[76mm]

Tarhunnas, that's good idea. currently I actually use fort zones pretty often, and at least so far have not been disbanding them (since they are as powerful as many of my 1 CV divisions).

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Tarhunnas, that's good idea. currently I actually use fort zones pretty often, and at least so far have not been disbanding them (since they are as powerful as many of my 1 CV divisions).

Yes, but you lose a lot of stuff when they retreat as everything in the FZ is captured. As the Soviet, you might just as well build a brigade instead. It cost just 5 AP instead of 4, it is moveable and it won't surrender when it retreats.

[76mm]

I do that too, but it can take several turns to build a bridage and get it in place, whereas FZ is in place right now.

[Klydon]

I would have to double check, but guessing the FZ has a better entrenching ability than a brigade. 

[LiquidSky]

But the Brigade has a way better routing ability then the FZ

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

I would have to double check, but guessing the FZ has a better entrenching ability than a brigade. 

I've checked; most of my FZ's had a construction value of 2, but one of the first emplaced FZs had a const value of 14.

For brigades, the unready ones had a constr value of 0, but some of the ready ones had a constr value of 11.

In general, if I have time, a brigade looks better, but if I want somebody digging in, however ineffectually, right now, I'll still use an FZ, although probably more sparingly in the future.