Can we have Rudel counter please

[sillyflower]

For those of you who don't remember DNO it had a Rudel counter that had a 1/3 chance of destroying a russian tank brigade every (fortnightly) turn.

{ Hans-Ulrich Rudel destroyed over 500 soviet afvs during the war + lots of other stuff. see his book 'stuka pilot'}

It would be great here at helping to slow the russian tank buildup and should stop complaints about stukas hardly ever knocking out afvs in this game

[cookie monster]

I don't think it fits in the scale of the game. HEHE

Nice joke though. Perhaps you could try them in the stickied game suggestions thread.

[heliodorus04]

Pivoting a little bit:  Were Ju-87s as awful in 1941 as the game mechanics seem to dictate?
I know it was proved inferior and far too vulnerable in the Battle of Britain, but I thought basic dive-bombing was still pretty effective, useful, and low-risk in Barbarossa's initial couple months.

[Panama]

JU-87G-1 was the final operational variant of the Stuka. Fitted with two 37mm cannon in underwing pods. This is what Rudel flew. This was also the aircraft that influenced the design of the A-10 Warthog. 'Stuka Pilot' written by Rudel was required reading for the people on the A-X project, the team that developed the A-10.

The JU-87G was needed because the HS-129, although a good ground attack platform, had large fuel tanks that made it vulnerable to enemy fire.

Also, the JU-87G was uparmored by copying the armor of the Il-2.

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

I don't think it fits in the scale of the game. HEHE

Nice joke though. Perhaps you could try them in the stickied game suggestions thread.

Fits much more here in a game that models individual a/c unlike DNO

[bcgames]

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

For those of you who don't remember DNO it had a Rudel counter that had a 1/3 chance of destroying a russian tank brigade every (fortnightly) turn.

{ Hans-Ulrich Rudel destroyed over 500 soviet afvs during the war + lots of other stuff. see his book 'stuka pilot'}

It would be great here at helping to slow the russian tank buildup and should stop complaints about stukas hardly ever knocking out afvs in this game

hmmm...this sounds like an interesting challenge. I wonder if it can be done using the editor? If so, what's the goal? I think to be successful, one must achieve the closest approximation of the effects of the Rudel counter in DNO/UNT and the players must know that Rudel (or his counter) was responsible for creating those effects. It's a puzzle.

[runyan99]

If the air war worked properly, people wouldn't ask for a Rudel unit.

There are two things wrong with the model as is.

1) Only one ground attack per week. Why? The idea that a Stuka squadron can only target enemy land units once is silly and without merit. If a target ground unit attack represents a large number of flights over the course of a week, it should use up a large proportion of allowed flight miles, and actually produce some results, which leads to the next point...

2) Air attacks on ground units cause few casualties.

So, you bomb once a week, and it does nothing. No wonder people are looking for an effective special counter.

Only interdiction seems to produce significant casualties, and it does not even work on trains 95% of the time.

The air war needs a lot of work.

[bcgames]

When I responded to Sillyflower, it was out of a sense of nostalgia. I believe that was the sense of his posting too. He can correct me if I was incorrect in my perception. I remember placing the Rudel counter and having it placed on my troops. That was DNO/UNT! Who could possibly remember one counter from a game published decades ago?! I will tell you--those who played the game.

[Ketza]

The infamouse Rudel counter. I used it lovingly.

[bcgames]

Indeed.

[Krafty]

Ju-87 B1 and B2 were responsible for over 2,000 vehicle kills in the first few months of Barbarossa. Theyre incredibly good and tough little aircraft. A 500kg bomb was more than enough to turn light and medium tanks inside out. The D variant added 2x20mm cannons. The G, which was by far the worst, put two useless 37mm anti tank guns under the wings, but removed the ability to carry a bomb. With only 13 rounds per gun loaded in the 37mms, and requiring a shallow dive angle against the rear or top of an enemy tank AND needing for those rounds to hit at convergence, it just increased the amount of stukas shot down, and lowered the amount of vehicle and personnel kills.

Rudel was a bafoon, and lucky. He also cost the lives of dozens of his men to get his incredibly kill scores (that are heavily refuted).

And the G barely offered any more armor protection than the B2 or D2. Those 37mm guns were heavy.

The D2 with the 2x20mm cannons in the wings, with the upgraded Jumo, carrying 1000kg bombs was one of the most effective air to ground platforms ever devised.




And no one ever mentions the old Bf110, who could carry 2x250kg bombs, was faster than most VVS aircraft at the start of the war, carried 2x20mm cannons in the nose, which were very accurate and easy to aim for pilots not familiar with deflection shooting. It easily outclimbed anything the VVS deployed, and could be fitted with all sorts of gear critical to fighting in the soviet union.

It was a good little airframe as well.

[Panama]

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk


Rudel was a bafoon, and lucky. He also cost the lives of dozens of his men to get his incredibly kill scores (that are heavily refuted).

Rescued 18 pilots/crew at different times after they were shot down. Shot down and wounded himself, escaped and was able to get through Soviet lines. 3500+ missions. Credited with 18 aircraft kills. Countless tanks and other vehicles. Numerous ships of various sizes. Survived the entire war flying a Stuka, much of it on the East Front.

If this is your idea of a bafoon then perhaps all soldiers and pilots should try and be bafoons. I guess Alvin C. York and Audy Murphy were bafoons too. That would put bafoons in some very good company.

[Ketza]

He might be refering to Rudels being a unrepentent Nazi.

[Panama]

ORIGINAL: Ketza

He might be refering to Rudels being a unrepentent Nazi.

Uh oh...[X(]

*Panama runs to the bomb shelter before the bombs go off*

[Ketza]

Hans-Ulrich Rudel (2 July 1916 – 18 December 1982) was a Stuka dive-bomber pilot during World War II and a member of the Nazi party. The most highly decorated German serviceman of the war, Rudel was one of only 27 military men to be awarded the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds, and the only one to be awarded the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Gold Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds.

Rudel flew 2,530 combat missions claiming a total of 2,000 targets destroyed; including 800 vehicles, 519 tanks, 150 artillery pieces, a destroyer, two cruisers, one Soviet battleship, 70 landing craft, 4 armored trains, several bridges and nine aircraft which he shot down


Nazi or not the man could fly the hell out of a Stuka.

Wonder how he would do in a Warthog flying over Kuwait!

[JJKettunen]

Rudel was the ultimate Baron von Münchausen. It is quite unbelievable how he managed to succeed with his imaginary kill claims. Perhaps he was the perfect soldier for the system to promote?

[Krafty]

You know there WERE other people in his group and squadron. Im sure they did their fair share of helping in all those rescues..but no one ever considers the other 5 or six planes that dropped bombs on the Marat, or covered his six, or "dove on the grenade" so to speak for their hero over and over again.

Audie Murphy didnt walk around decorated like a christmas tree after the war, and wasnt an unrepetent fascist. In his book all he does is tell the reader how much he respects all the sacrifices of the men who got him there. Stuka Pilot reads like a pulp adventure novel, only its a true story written by a self absorbed dweeb

But thats just my personal opinion. Dick Bong and Bud Anderson are kind of turds too. Gunther Rall on the other hand, and Chuck Yeager, while being braggarts, never hestitate to mention that theyre merely standing on the shoulders of giants. Without some other poor bastard and wingmen out there getting his tail shot off, they would never have lived, let alone killed half the people they did.

[scalp]

Rudel? Greatest liar. He was a hero of Nazi propaganda and most of his " victories " were unconfirmed, or were confirmed by Rudel himself only. So all those numbers of thousands of tanks destroyed by Rudel are in Rudels dreams. Read his book to see that. Too many mismatches and outspoken lie. There was an episode when Rudel says that he annihilated the whole russian cavalry division during one day on his Stuka...OMG
Absolutely true, he was a good pilot, but like many other German pilots in Luftwaffe. Just a victim of propaganda and it is really sad he was a nazy himself for all his life.

[Krupinski]

ORIGINAL: scalp

Read his book to see that.

Which book? Author? Please give us a link..

[Panama]

LMAO. Someone simply wanted a Rudel counter and the flame jockeys storm out of the barracks like a bunch of girl scouts rushing to sell their over priced biscuits. NAZI!!!!! LIAR!!!!! PROPAGANDA!!!!!!!

It's really quite pathetic. Put the game away. There are far too many Nazi counters on the map. Only the Pacific and Asia for you.