Phantom surface bombardment at PM

[EZPickens]

Was playing the May-July 42 scenario. Things went well thru the middle of June, when PM started suffering night-time BB-CA bombardment.

I was utterly helpless to stop it. I had two squadrons of PBY + one SBD at PM on naval search in addition to 4 squadrons of B17 at cooktown, all on 100% naval search at 5-10000ft.

The bombardments continued for three weeks until PM was inoperable. I was never able to respond because the surface ships were never spotted.

I'm so mad; I feel like every minute that I have invested in this game has been a absolute waste of my time. Sorry, to rant, but this **** game makes me want to pull my hair out.

EZ

[Erik Rutins]

EZ,

Did you try stationing a surface combat TF a few hexes south of Port Moresby on Patrol / React? How about stationing a CV TF southeast of Gili Gili to catch them on the return leg? Subs and mines in Port Moresby? Subs in the channel by Gili Gili where they head through in their run? All of these strategies have worked for me to stop the PM bombardment runs before the P-38 / B-24 combination makes them way too dangerous for the Japanese.

Regards,

- Erik

[mogami]

Hi, Erik did not mention this is not a bug. It is the bombardment feature, your ships can do the same thing. The only sure fire way to stop this is for one of your surface combat task forces to meet the enemy. It does not have to win the battle. The damaged enemy ships can be picked off by air attacks from LBA or CV near by. But react orders for TF close to or actually having a TF on do not retire at PM are the only certain methods of stopping this.
These TF's have to have a speed over 25k to get in and out. They have to have certain fuel levels and ammo levels. (Bigger the ship easier it is to get it to fire it's bombardment ammo in surface battle) Slow the heavy ships down by engaging them with TF of DD and then hammer them the next day with your air.
(TF on do not retire I think are best since your damaged ships will be right there at Port Moresby to go into port to reduce flooding and put out fires before heading back for repair) (Make PM their home port)

[EZPickens]

First and foremost, thanks for responding!

W/O intending to seem like a pest, could you guys please tell me why my search units never once, in 3+ weeks of raids, reported the presence or location of the bombardment group.

The raids would occur during the night and I would be informed of the groups presence. But when morning came they had vanished and I would receive no warning of their presence until the next raid.

I would be willing to attribute this to bad luck were it not for the emphasis that I put on naval search with my air assets, which was to absolutely no avail.

EZ

[dgaad]

Bombardment groups travel to target, fire on target, and return to base during the late day/dusk/night/dawn/early morning timeframe.

Bombardment groups will move from a start port to a point where they can make a timed run to the target hex during these low light or nighttime hours. This is called the attack run start point.


If the hex which is the attack run start point is not covered by PBYs, you will never see them. From Cooktown, the range of PBYs is insufficient to have flown over this start point, most likely.

Had your PBYs been in PM or Gili Gili, you may have seen the bombardment group. However, the AI usually does not form or use bombardment groups if there is no attack run start point which is not covered by your naval air search.

[EZPickens]

I had two squadrons of PBY at PM throughout the ordeal.

Once my move turn began, there was never any sign of the bombardment group on the game map.

And trust me I looked.

EZ

[Spooky]

Trust us , the Japanese bombardment TF is close to Gili Gili (usually a few hex east). The best tactics is to bring an US surface combat TF in PM that will intercept the bombardment TF.

The interesting point is that the damaged US ships will be repaired in PM without having to travel while the damaged Japanese ships will have to go back to Rabaul or Shortlands - a long way for a damaged ship - and you will be able to intercept them with your PM LBA since they will move quite slower when damaged.

Spooky

[Paul Vebber]

Planes only spot in day - you must have ships to spot at night when the planes can't search.

[Erik Rutins]

You can also set your PBYs to Naval Attack at night while your B-17s Search during the day. I've seen the PBYs do night attacks, but this is a rare, long shot type of thing.

The best strategy is to use a full combined strategy, employing all the tools mentioned above to damage and then destroy enemy bombardment TFs. It is generally possible to shut down a bombardment route quickly using those methods.

Regards,

- Erik

[Kingfish]

I’m having a problem trying to accept the bombardment of PM as a valid tactic that the IJN would have employed during the war. I understand that it was used during the Guadacanal campaign, but to compare the two would be comparing apples to oranges IMO.

First, unless I’m mistaken, the Tokyo runs were always part of a larger operation, usually to neutralize Allied air-power prior to landing reinforcements or supplies on Guadacanal. I believe the IJN knew of the risk to these bombardment TFs from air and surface forces, but deemed them acceptable as long as the convoys made it in and out safely. IOW, the IJN understood that only ground forces could wrestle control of Guadacanal from the Americans, so they were ready to lose a few warships as long as the troops made it ashore. The benefit outweighed the risk.

However, in the case of the bombardments of PM these circumstances don’t exist. There are no convoys bound for PM or Gili Gili, so there isn’t a need to place these high value units at risk. The damage to PM would not be worth the destruction of a few (or possibly all) of the warships. The risk outweighed the benefits.

Another thing to consider: if these runs to PM were possible, and as successful as to what EZPickens and others have witnessed, then why didn’t the IJN employ then during the war? Certainly they had an abundance of BBs and CAs in the theater. Why didn’t we see constant shuttle runs from Rabaul? Could it be that these attacks were impossible to carry out without detection and subsequent interception from LBA? Keep in mind that EZ has 7 squadrons on 100% naval search, and still hasn’t detected them. How many squadrons were used for full time search on Midway, and how successful were they?

One final thought: As I understand it, the reason the game allows this kind of attack is because it was employed by the IJN during the Guadacanal campaign. However, a quick look at the geography of PM convinces me that it wasn’t possible to sneak up to, bombard, then sneak out undetected. In the case of Lunga it was a straight shot from the Shortlands, down the slot, then back again. Every minute they were steaming back up the slot they were putting distance between themselves and Henderson field. Not so in the case of PM. Not only do they first have to cross the entire Solomon sea from Rabaul, but then round the corner at Gili Gili before they start their approach to PM. Something tells me that distance is too far to travel to get in and out undetected.

Anyway, I’ve stated my case. You may have the floor

[mogami]

Greetings, I think the enemy intends on bringing troops to PM after the bombardment TF's have closed the airfield.


(Japan had lost Midway-halt to offensives-in Scen 17 they have not)(I think EZ is playing "Coral Sea" the objective was PM)