Sloops

[Shark7]

Just out of curiosity, how do most modders classify the sloop class vessels in game?

To me, the most likely would be Escort or Patrol Frigate. Although I could see PG, KV, PC, or PB working as well.

[DuckofTindalos]

Escort. That's what they are, no need to make it more complicated.

[witpqs]

I think he meant SC, PF, DE, etc.?

[DuckofTindalos]

There's a ship type called Escort. Abbreviated "E".

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

There's a ship type called Escort. Abbreviated "E".

OK - I've seen those for Japan but never (not yet) for the Allies. I just read Turning the Tide (I'll get the author's name for you if you want it) about the critical turning period in the Battle of the North Atlantic. Several of the convoy escorts were described as "sloops", so that's what was guiding my thinking.

[DuckofTindalos]

"Sloop" was pretty much unique to the Royal Navy.

[Shark7]

Escort was what I was leaning to, and as Terminus pointed out, no need to make it anymore complicated than that, because that was the role they filled. I was just curious if they'd be considered anything else.

And this particular question was centered around the RTN Maeklong and RTN Takhin, Thai ships added to IJN side for further info.

[el cid again]

In AE different designations have different code effects.
DE might be appropriate for a high end vessel with good sonar, training, and some
real ASW weapons - more than 1 or 2 DC racks - but ahead throwing weapons.
This is plain wrong for RTN. Code gives a DE an advantage in AS combat.
In RTN case, these are probably really PG. I am not sure - but I think there are
three levels of AS ships - (four if nada is a level) - DE - DD - PC - with everything
not DE or DD considered = PC. But it is possible a PG is even worse than a PC -
which is about right. AS is very, very hard - and only specialist ships ever do well
at it.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

In AE different designations have different code effects.
DE might be appropriate for a high end vessel with good sonar, training, and some
real ASW weapons - more than 1 or 2 DC racks - but ahead throwing weapons.
This is plain wrong for RTN. Code gives a DE an advantage in AS combat.
In RTN case, these are probably really PG. I am not sure - but I think there are
three levels of AS ships - (four if nada is a level) - DE - DD - PC - with everything
not DE or DD considered = PC. But it is possible a PG is even worse than a PC -
which is about right. AS is very, very hard - and only specialist ships ever do well
at it.

I'm basically going to treat them as a standard IJN E classification. They did have some ASW capabitlities in the form a couple of DC Throwers (though from seeing actual photos of the ship, the throwers only had 2 ready rounds per, and I'm not sure if extra DCs were stored below deck). So as you suggest, they would not even be as good as the poorest IJN escort or PG in terms of ASW combat, the RTN was more ASuW focused. E may be over-rating them, but with only 2 of them, and only 2 throwers they shouldn't be over-powered.

[DuckofTindalos]

And just FYI: "el cid again" is not in a position to make any statements regarding what advantages or disadvantages the code gives to any ship type.

[Shark7]

Well you can see I do pretty much what I feel most comfortable with anyway.

(And that is not a typo on the AAA ammo, I'm trying a little experiment that may or may not work out [;)] ).

[JWE]

Pretty much like T says, Cid don't know shit from shinola. Serious players can always get good information by sending me a pm asking for it.

Cid knows nothing of the code, Cid knows nothing about anything as to how AE works. He will lie and tell you and tell you he has talked to "Joe" who has verified all his psycho babel.

Being a Team Lead, I know, for a fact, that Cid was considered a joke in the development community, and nobody would bother communicating with him, even Joe. The man is a lying sack, with an over estended, hyper developed ego. He don't know shit about code and he never will.

This is Memorial Day, and as such, I, personally, am sick and tired of Cid's claims to experiene. I have Cid's personnel records, thanks to a friend. If necessary, I will link to them. Actually think ya'll should know just what a normal, worthless, average, everyday sailor the Navy thought this jerk was.

Checked with the laywers, and it's quite ok (given the circumstances) to post Sid Trefethern's actual service record. Got it from a friend and think I will do that. The guy is so psychologically challenged it's worth doing. Lying about anything can now be confronted by facts. Not that facts bother people like that.

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Just out of curiosity, how do most modders classify the sloop class vessels in game?

To me, the most likely would be Escort or Patrol Frigate. Although I could see PG, KV, PC, or PB working as well.

Thats depends mostly on armament, and ship speed. The main difference of type would be to what kind of TF it will fit.
Escort types are generally defensive ships, I see this one is armed with torpedoes, and few guns, so it is more offensive.
E do not fit into Bombardment TF, and I do not see reason, why 4 12cm guns should be excluded. So I would say, either TB, or DE.
With torpedoes, you must also think, about rearming options for it, so probably some ammo ships should rearm chosen class.

[oldman45]

I don't know much at all about the japanese ships but I don't think Escort is a good one for this, I would go with TB myself.

[Shark7]

In reality, Maeklong remained in service with the RTN until being decommissioned in 1995. Her last role was that of a training frigate. So in all honestly, classifying it FFL (KV in AE terms) or FF, that is to say, Corvette or Frigate would be appropriate as well. Still, general escort is probably the role it served (which is what a frigate does).

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: inqistor

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Just out of curiosity, how do most modders classify the sloop class vessels in game?

To me, the most likely would be Escort or Patrol Frigate. Although I could see PG, KV, PC, or PB working as well.

Thats depends mostly on armament, and ship speed. The main difference of type would be to what kind of TF it will fit.
Escort types are generally defensive ships, I see this one is armed with torpedoes, and few guns, so it is more offensive.
E do not fit into Bombardment TF, and I do not see reason, why 4 12cm guns should be excluded. So I would say, either TB, or DE.
With torpedoes, you must also think, about rearming options for it, so probably some ammo ships should rearm chosen class.

The truth is that the RTN was quite capable of rearming, repairing and re-equipping their own vessels. They had a drydock big enough to handle their Sri Ayuthia class gunboats (2500 tons), as well as a pair of fitting drydocks where they built a number of cargo vessels. I'm probably going to have to play around with the port size and add a RSY of 5-15, maybe even larger to simulate their true capabilities.

Contrary to the 'official' western story, when PG Dhonburi was sunk at the battle of Koh Chang, it was not refloated and towed to Japan for repairs. It was refloated and repaired at Bangkok with Japanese technical help. Dhonburi served on until it was sunk again in 1951. Contrary to the reports, Sri Ayuthia was not even present at Koh Chang, but was nearly 100 miles away and undamaged by the battle. It was Dhonburi and 2 Trad class torpedo boats that were engaged and sunk by the French at Dhonburi. This story coming from a Thai naval officer actually on board the Dhonburi at the time. When I locate a link to the story, I'll post it...it was something I read, but didn't write down the web adress for.

[TOMLABEL]

ORIGINAL: JWE

Pretty much like T says, Cid don't know shit from shinola. Serious players can always get good information by sending me a pm asking for it.

Cid knows nothing of the code, Cid knows nothing about anything as to how AE works. He will lie and tell you and tell you he has talked to "Joe" who has verified all his psycho babel.

Being a Team Lead, I know, for a fact, that Cid was considered a joke in the development community, and nobody would bother communicating with him, even Joe. The man is a lying sack, with an over estended, hyper developed ego. He don't know shit about code and he never will.

This is Memorial Day, and as such, I, personally, am sick and tired of Cid's claims to experiene. I have Cid's personnel records, thanks to a friend. If necessary, I will link to them. Actually think ya'll should know just what a normal, worthless, average, everyday sailor the Navy thought this jerk was.

Checked with the laywers, and it's quite ok (given the circumstances) to post Sid Trefethern's actual service record. Got it from a friend and think I will do that. The guy is so psychologically challenged it's worth doing. Lying about anything can now be confronted by facts. Not that facts bother people like that.

[X(]

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: Shark7
The truth is that the RTN was quite capable of rearming, repairing and re-equipping their own vessels. They had a drydock big enough to handle their Sri Ayuthia class gunboats (2500 tons), as well as a pair of fitting drydocks where they built a number of cargo vessels. I'm probably going to have to play around with the port size and add a RSY of 5-15, maybe even larger to simulate their true capabilities.

Heh, I have not thought of that, but logically, it should be port in Thai territory, which can rearm their torpedoes.
Also maybe small Merchant production. I am not sure about Repair Yard. Have they had any auxiliary repair vessels? Their presence could be enough.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: inqistor

ORIGINAL: Shark7
The truth is that the RTN was quite capable of rearming, repairing and re-equipping their own vessels. They had a drydock big enough to handle their Sri Ayuthia class gunboats (2500 tons), as well as a pair of fitting drydocks where they built a number of cargo vessels. I'm probably going to have to play around with the port size and add a RSY of 5-15, maybe even larger to simulate their true capabilities.

Heh, I have not thought of that, but logically, it should be port in Thai territory, which can rearm their torpedoes.
Also maybe small Merchant production. I am not sure about Repair Yard. Have they had any auxiliary repair vessels? Their presence could be enough.

They had a submarine tender, an oiler and a drydock/graving dock. Their navy would have been quite useless if they couldn't re-arm and repair their own ships.

HTMS Thonburi was towed back to Bangkok following the battle of Koh Chang and repaired in the drydock at the Thonburi Naval Dockyard. So yes, there was a repair dry dock (a graving dock)...it was a permanent structure, dug out into the ground.

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: Shark7
They had a submarine tender, an oiler and a drydock/graving dock. Their navy would have been quite useless if they couldn't re-arm and repair their own ships.

HTMS Thonburi was towed back to Bangkok following the battle of Koh Chang and repaired in the drydock at the Thonburi Naval Dockyard. So yes, there was a repair dry dock (a graving dock)...it was a permanent structure, dug out into the ground.

It all depends of what kind of damage they could repair locally. If it was possible to rebuild ship broken in half, there should be Repair Yard. But if it was only hole patching, thing need closer examination.