random weather during the first winter

[olivier34]

I am playing my GC as the axis with random weather on. Some mud during one week in July and some consequences for sure. Now, during the coming winter I have the feeling that random weather should make both player be very carefull when they launch a major offensive.

The axis player discover first the type of weather of the turn and knows what weather condition will have the soviets.
The soviet player has to do some probability to know what weather condition will have his opponent to respond to his move.

Let's say that it is "blizzard": The axis player plays first, move is panzers in some strategic places where the soviets could strike. The russian player will strike but will have the fear that the next weather turn is snow and that the axis will be abble to strongly counter attack.

[Wally Wilson]

I played the long campaign as the Soviets. In the first winter I had managed to salvage a great deal of my original forces and set up a large reserve around Moscow. On the first blizzard turn, I shattered the German units north of Moscow, leaving them with nothing which to use to attack. Since I played that game, the update has changed the winter rules so they are not as harsh on the Germans (afaik).

I'm currently playing the campaign starting in 1942 so I skipped the first winter.

I think playing as the Soviets agains the AI in the long 1941 campaign is too easy (if you have a grasp of the Soviet strategy dogma for war games). I took Berlin in May 1944 and ended the game in June, although my casualties were monstrous.

WW

[cpt flam]

from what i know even with random weather
december to february will be blizzard [;)]
better to be prepared

[Tarhunnas]

Random weather is a big advantage for the Axis during the first winter. Even one turn of snow can put a serious spanner in the works for the Soviet winter offensive. IMHO it is a good tradeoff for the possibility of a turn of summer mud.

[CheerfullyInsane]

Bearing in mind that I have nowhere near the game-experience that Tarhunnas has, I'd disagree.

A snow-turn can obviously do serious harm to the Russian winter-offensive, but my argument is that there simply isn't the same pressure on the winter-offensive to succeed, as there is on the initial German hammer-blow.
Should the winter-offensive fail, or at least do less than planned, the Russian is still in pretty good shape.
Whereas a turn of Mud in summer '41 can be outright debilitating to Barbarossa.
It's especially annoying if it comes right after you've put your armor on HQ build-up, and had planned to plunge through the Russian lines. Instead you get to sit there and watch as the line falls back a couple of hexes, and 10 new divisions swoop in to cover the front.

I wouldn't mind so much if you had some sort of warning, say a weather-report for the coming turn so you could plan for it. But as it is, you're going from bright sunshine to knee-deep mud in a week, without any staffers noticing a single black cloud on the horizon. [:D]
So, for the time being, I'm sticking with non-random weather.
Yes, it makes for outrageously a-historical capabilities for planning, I just think the Germans have it tough enough as is.

[Speedysteve]

Overall I'd say random weather favours the axis more in the long run. The only time it can really go against them is in summer 41. On the flip side it can benefit them with snow turns in winter 41 and then with mud turns in summer 43, 44 and 45

[KamilS]

Tarhunnas

Random weather is a big advantage for the Axis during the first winter. Even one turn of snow can put a serious spanner in the works for the Soviet winter offensive. IMHO it is a good tradeoff for the possibility of a turn of summer mud.

I strongly disagree. In comparison with mud in July impact of random weather on winter campaign is bad joke. According to rules, there won't be any other weather than blizzard in Dec and Jan. Snow in February is nice but it is nowhere near as important as mud during summer.

Using random weather rules I haven't played further than February '42, but so far it is nothing less than major boost for Soviets. I have strong felling that it spoiled that game a bit.

[Vyper]

ORIGINAL: Kamil

Tarhunnas

Random weather is a big advantage for the Axis during the first winter. Even one turn of snow can put a serious spanner in the works for the Soviet winter offensive. IMHO it is a good tradeoff for the possibility of a turn of summer mud.

I strongly disagree. In comparison with mud in July impact of random weather on winter campaign is bad joke. According to rules, there won't be any other weather than blizzard in Dec and Jan. Snow in February is nice but it is nowhere near as important as mud during summer.

Using random weather rules I haven't played further than February '42, but so far it is nothing less than major boost for Soviets. I have strong felling that it spoiled that game a bit.

I have been playing a GC 41 game with a friend of mine for some time now. Being the very first pbem game for both of us, we had random weather on.

Imagine my surprise when Turn 30 hits and it is a snow turn across the entire map...with Europe in mud. He crushed my winter offensive.

The rules are written kind of vague, but I think that there is supposed to be at least one snow turn in each zone in the time frame dec-feb.



Serious lesson learned for me next winter...count on nothing!

[KamilS]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kamil

quote:

Tarhunnas

Random weather is a big advantage for the Axis during the first winter. Even one turn of snow can put a serious spanner in the works for the Soviet winter offensive. IMHO it is a good tradeoff for the possibility of a turn of summer mud.



I strongly disagree. In comparison with mud in July impact of random weather on winter campaign is bad joke. According to rules, there won't be any other weather than blizzard in Dec and Jan. Snow in February is nice but it is nowhere near as important as mud during summer.

Using random weather rules I haven't played further than February '42, but so far it is nothing less than major boost for Soviets. I have strong felling that it spoiled that game a bit.

Vyper

I have been playing a GC 41 game with a friend of mine for some time now. Being the very first pbem game for both of us, we had random weather on.

Imagine my surprise when Turn 30 hits and it is a snow turn across the entire map...with Europe in mud. He crushed my winter offensive.

The rules are written kind of vague, but I think that there is supposed to be at least one snow turn in each zone in the time frame dec-feb.

Rules must have changed recently, because according to new manual there is possibility of getting snow in Dec and Jan.

Question is when did it happen? I always play on newest patch, and we started December's turn on 12th of June, so I must have been using 1.04.24. In last two patches there are no changes of winter rules. Moreover none of 1.04.xx patches changes rule of automatic blizzard conditions during Dec and Jan. Rule that was introduced in one of January's patches.


Ok, It is how it is now, but why I didn't get snow?

I see one possible way of explaining this situation - during one of November's turn we experienced extremely ridiculous weather effects - for me everywhere was blizzard for Encircled it was snow. Could it be the case?

[Vyper]

Not sure, but your Jan isn't finished yet.

Re-reading the random weather rules yet again,

For random weather, a die(11) is rolled by the computer and the modifier for each weather zone is added to determine the weather for the turn per the below table. The following exceptions will occur when using random weather:
»»There will be at most one snow turn per weather zone in December and January.

If you look at the tables for random weather, there should be 0 (zero) chance for North Soviet zone to get snow. (North Soviet gets a +4 roll, D11 in Janurary should be min roll of 5, giving blizzard. Snow is a 4 or lower) Yet as you can see I did get snow on Jan 8.

Perhaps there is something I am overlooking, or maybe there is an undetected game bug for random weather chances.

Either way, I like random weather...as I think it makes you have to deal with the unknown much more like they had to during the period. IMO, knowing with 100% certainty is kind of minor league....but everyone deserves to play what they enjoy.

Having a random snow turn in the middle of blizzard is every bit as halting to the Soviets as a mud turn in July for the Germans, if not more so(cv adjustments).


I wish the wording was a bit clearer also....

There will be at most one snow turn per weather zone in December and January.

Does that mean max of one in Dec and then max of one in Jan, or a max of one from the start to Dec until the end of Jan?

[KamilS]

Vyper

Not sure, but your Jan isn't finished yet.

I have already played through Jan, and I didn't get anything but blizzard. Things obviously changed in Feb, when Germans can get more turns of favourable weather.

[Vyper]

ORIGINAL: Kamil

Vyper

Not sure, but your Jan isn't finished yet.

I have already played through Jan, and I didn't get anything but blizzard. Things obviously changed in Feb, when Germans can get more turns of favourable weather.

Then I don't understand what is supposed to happen exactly then or there is an undiscovered bug in the weather generator. But as you can see, North Soviet can get a snow turn in Jan....I just have no idea of the odds of that happening. And my grand total of 32 turns in the 41 GC is kind of a tiny sample pool for stats...[:)]

[Encircled]

 Random weather needs tweeking, as the mud can cause massive problems in the first few turns, but no-one has run a full game with it on yet (as far as I can tell), so it's probably going to even itself out over the long term.

 Non-Random weather is exactly what it says. You know thats what exactly what you are going to get. Great, if you are replaying Barbarossa, total, utter bobbins if you are doing anything else. To know that you only have three turns of clear to take Moscow, with no variation at all, (as the German), or that you have snow next turn, so you spend the turn going into defensive positions (as the Soviet) just make it a bit silly.

 Most Russian campaign game I've ever played has random weather, because it makes the game that little more playable.

 

[Joel Billings]

This is in the readme file: Missing Rule – Section 22.2 should contain an additional exception that states there will be no snow or mud during December 1941 and January 1942 (only Blizzard).

[kevini1000]

So at the end of the day Random weather can really only help the Russian's in 41/42 when it matters the most.

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

This is in the readme file: Missing Rule – Section 22.2 should contain an additional exception that states there will be no snow or mud during December 1941 and January 1942 (only Blizzard).

[Vyper]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

This is in the readme file: Missing Rule – Section 22.2 should contain an additional exception that states there will be no snow or mud during December 1941 and January 1942 (only Blizzard).

Hi joel,

Is that in the readme for 1.04.xx or the current 1.03 which my screenshot of snow during Jan is of?

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: sath

So at the end of the day Random weather can really only help the Russian's in 41/42 when it matters the most.

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

This is in the readme file: Missing Rule – Section 22.2 should contain an additional exception that states there will be no snow or mud during December 1941 and January 1942 (only Blizzard).

Incorrect. In a game that I've (Axis) got going with Speedy (Soviets), the first February turn we got snow in the Central Soviet Zone. Even though I had been getting pummeled continuously for the past eight turns, I was able to immediately counterattack across much of the board and retreated/routed at least 3 dozen units It put a crimp in his offensive.

The next turn, I got Snow in the Northern Soviet Zone. Though I wasn't in position to take advantage of it, this was a clear respite for my forces who again, were suffering from his Winter Counteroffensive.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Kamil
I see one possible way of explaining this situation - during one of November's turn we experienced extremely ridiculous weather effects - for me everywhere was blizzard for Encircled it was snow. Could it be the case?

Have you verified that you both have the same version installed?

Regards,

- Erik

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: Encircled

 Random weather needs tweeking, as the mud can cause massive problems in the first few turns, but no-one has run a full game with it on yet (as far as I can tell), so it's probably going to even itself out over the long term.

My GC as the Axis is now in August 1942, it has been played with random weather. I have not had any really bad luck with the weather, and in my opinion, in my game, random weather has helped the Axis slightly.

For the Soviets it is an immense advantage of knowing exactly when there will be mud and when there will be blizzard. As they move second, they can plan for the weather and take advantage of that knowledge to an unrealistic degree.

As I have said elswhere, I think random weather is better and more realistic, but the current weather tables have too wide swings and too extreme results. For me, the situation now is that random weather is too random and non-random weather is too predictable, leaving me with no good alternative.

As the Axis, I would prefer random weather anytime. I think those who think non-random weather is preferable for the Germans are only really considering the German 1941 offensive up to mud.

[KamilS]

ORIGINAL: Kamil
I see one possible way of explaining this situation - during one of November's turn we experienced extremely ridiculous weather effects - for me everywhere was blizzard for Encircled it was snow. Could it be the case?

Erik Rutins

Have you verified that you both have the same version installed?

Regards,

- Erik

Usually both of us were updating to newest patch as soon as it was possible. Obviously there were instances when one person did turn on older and other on newer version.

For last few turns there was difference, though - I used 1.04.30 and Encircled 1.04.28. Since 13th June (patch 1.04.29) we made 13 turns.