Big problems with SU . Need help .

[vonik]

Despite many attempts and careful manual reading , I have still problems with Support Unit attachements . I tried a "search" on this board with no result either .
There are several :

1)
The manual says that SU can be attached to any HQ . Yet there seems to be a maximum range . Sometimes it is 10 , sometimes 20 . It doesn't seem to depend on the nature of HQ (Korps , Army , OKH) or of the SU itself (motorized or not) .
So the question - is there a range requirement ? And if yes why does the manual say that there is none ?
Btw the way I try to attach is : select the SU -> click on current attachement -> (pop up showing available new HQ displays) click on new attachement

2)
The attachement of an SU to a Divison looks random . Selecting a Division sitting 1 hex beside its parent Korps HQ I click on "assign" . Only 1 unit is available in the pop up and this unit is in a farther away HQ . No SU in the parent HQ is available for attachement to the Division despite the fact that there are 8 in the Korps HQ .
For some Divisions the choice is a mix of SU from parent HQ and other HQs . And last some units have no choice available at all despite the fact that there are SU in range .
So the question : what restrictions are there for SU attachements to Divisons ? The manual doesn't mention any .

Of course in all cases the units are in supply and command range . I even tried to get them out of ennemy contact to see if there is a difference (there isn't) .
Thanks for your help , not being able to efficiently use the SU is really frustrating and I can't think of any new test to understand the system now .

[Manstein63]

Haven't played too much as the Germans so this may not be totally correct but only certain types of support unit can be attached to a division up to a maximum of 3? units AFAIK the artillery su's cannot be attached to divisions
Manstein63

[ComradeP]

If you switch support units through changing the superior HQ of the support unit, the HQ's you can select are limited by a certain range, because HQ's won't appear in the list outside that range. There is, however, no true limit in distance. If you put a support unit in OKH, for example, which is at the top of the chain, every unit with higher HQ's belonging to OKH or directly attached to OKH can draw a support unit from it, so even if you select a division, it can get a support unit from OKH.

Divisions can't have Luftwaffe, artillery or construction units attached to them, and as those tend to be in their superior corps HQ's, that might be why you're not able to attach them to the divisions. The division will trace from its superior HQ all the way to OKH (usually: corps>army>army group>OKH) and will be able to get support units from any of those HQ's but not from HQ's not in that line (such as a corps HQ belonging to the same army, but one to which the division is not directly attached).

[vonik]

Thanks

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

If you switch support units through changing the superior HQ of the support unit, the HQ's you can select are limited by a certain range, because HQ's won't appear in the list outside that range. There is, however, no true limit in distance. If you put a support unit in OKH, for example, which is at the top of the chain, every unit with higher HQ's belonging to OKH or directly attached to OKH can draw a support unit from it, so even if you select a division, it can get a support unit from OKH.

OK , so that means that there is ALWAYS a range limit which is equal to some number which is not in the manual and depends on the GIVING HQ .
Right ?
This number doesn't seem to obey any obvious rule . An example from my game :
2nd PzArmy HQ has a 995th LW Light Flak Bn . Trying to transfer it leads to a pop up featuring several other HQs up to a range of 25 .
3rd PzArmy HQ just a few hexes away has a mixed I/ Lehr LW Flak Bn . Trying to transfer it leads to a pop up featuring several other HQs up to a range of 10 .
V Korps has a Pioneer Bn . Trying to transfer it leads to a pop up featuring several other HQs up to a range of 13 .
Etc .

The division will trace from its superior HQ all the way to OKH (usually: corps>army>army group>OKH) and will be able to get support units from any of those HQ's but not from HQ's not in that line (such as a corps HQ belonging to the same army, but one to which the division is not directly attached).

OK . Also subject to some kind variable range depending on the giving HQ like above I guess .
That makes transferring from SU between units extremely unwieldy and must happen at least in 2 steps if I understand well .

Step 1 : Transfer of SU from Unit A to C , the lowest common HQ with unit B (Army , AG , OKH in that order) . Let us not forget to lock the receiving HQ because else the transferred SU immediately disappears to a wrong unit .
Step 2 : Next turn transfer SU from C to B .
So it takes in minimum 3 turns (e.g 3 weeks) to be able to use an SU in another unit than its original unit .
If there is no common HQ in range of the giving unit , then more than 2 steps are necessary . That means that an SU being transferred may well be unavailable for 1 month or more .
Right ?

[ComradeP]

OK , so that means that there is ALWAYS a range limit which is equal to some number which is not in the manual and depends on the GIVING HQ .

The list is also limited in size in general, so it's also quite possible that there are simply too many HQ's near the current HQ of the support unit in order for HQ's further away to appear.

Step 1 : Transfer of SU from Unit A to C , the lowest common HQ with unit B (Army , AG , OKH in that order) . Let us not forget to lock the receiving HQ because else the transferred SU immediately disappears to a wrong unit .
Step 2 : Next turn transfer SU from C to B .
So it takes in minimum 3 turns (e.g 3 weeks) to be able to use an SU in another unit than its original unit .
If there is no common HQ in range of the giving unit , then more than 2 steps are necessary . That means that an SU being transferred may well be unavailable for 1 month or more .
Right ?

It depends heavily on where the support unit needs to go relative to where it is and if OKH/STAVKA is in range, as in that case it will just take 2 turns (1 turn to move it to OKH/STAVKA, from which most units can then pull it next turn). It could in some cases take 3 turns if there are too many HQ's in the area for an Army Group/Front (or OKH/STAVKA) HQ to appear and if you can only send it to, say, an army HQ.

However, if a unit needs to go to a unit belonging to some nearby formation, it is also generally possible to move it in two turns, as you can move it to its commanding army or corps HQ in most cases.

[vonik]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Step 1 : Transfer of SU from Unit A to C , the lowest common HQ with unit B (Army , AG , OKH in that order) . Let us not forget to lock the receiving HQ because else the transferred SU immediately disappears to a wrong unit .
Step 2 : Next turn transfer SU from C to B .
So it takes in minimum 3 turns (e.g 3 weeks) to be able to use an SU in another unit than its original unit .
If there is no common HQ in range of the giving unit , then more than 2 steps are necessary . That means that an SU being transferred may well be unavailable for 1 month or more .
Right ?

It depends heavily on where the support unit needs to go relative to where it is and if OKH/STAVKA is in range, as in that case it will just take 2 turns (1 turn to move it to OKH/STAVKA, from which most units can then pull it next turn). It could in some cases take 3 turns if there are too many HQ's in the area for an Army Group/Front (or OKH/STAVKA) HQ to appear and if you can only send it to, say, an army HQ.

However, if a unit needs to go to a unit belonging to some nearby formation, it is also generally possible to move it in two turns, as you can move it to its commanding army or corps HQ in most cases.

Thanks .
So I understood well that a moved SU is unavailable for 3 turns minimum (case where a common HQ is at range of both receiving and giving unit) .
2 turns to make the move and as an SU can't be used the turn it has been moved , add 1 and it makes 3 turns before being active.
Best case . If there is not a common HQ in range , it is more .
I suppose there were some coding constraints for the developpers because it's not realistic to take 3 weeks (minimum) or 1 month to transfer a bataillon between 2 units which are most of the time only a few hundreds km or less apart .

[ComradeP]

Support units can be used in the same turn they were moved.

[marcpennington]

The hard coded limited number of options in the SU HQ transfer screen is actually one of my big pet peeves with the game. For example, it's frustrating when one can transfer sappers for the breakthrough to Leningrad directly to 18th army in AGN from various corps HQs in AGS (as there are relatively few nearby HQs in the south to fill up the list and 18th Army is therefore available as an option, given the list will be populated with available armies once nearby corps HQs are used up), but conversely one does not have an option to transfer sappers out of a AGC corps to either 18th Army, AGN, or OKH, because there are so many nearby corps HQs that the list gets filled up.

The workaround I found, BTW, was to fill up a HQ with the various SUs I wanted to move north from AGC, then to physically move the HQ to near the AGN corps I wanted to transfer the SUs too.... But you get the point.