Overbalanced Defence Tutorial Scenario 5

[Scritty]

Maybe my skills are dulling in my old age....who knows..but...

In the tutorial campaign, scenario 5, I'm coming completely unstuck. I think you have 24 turns to get 7 or 8 towns. As an offensive op I'm finding myself hugely outnumbered. I have the basic units given for the scenario and maybe 12 of my own, average value 11 or 12 (I think I've upgraded all of the 10's)

I've taken the first two towns with zero unit losses and used about 250 prestige to keep my force completely up to strength, but as I progress every town seems to have about 60-70% of the value of my entire force guarding it, 6/7 towns in all, making 350-400% force weighted to the defender overall.

Sure I'm taking them one at a time and leveraging my local superiority - but this takes AGES - most realistic warfare guides say you want 250-300% superiority as the attacker against a well dug in defender. Locally I have about 125-130% and overall I'm outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1 so attacking more than one town at a time results in a pretty quick defeat.

In the 24 turns the most I have completed is 3 towns - I'm not even close to getting this scenario done - not even 50% and I've now been trying for 2 days straight.

What am I missing here? I'm sure it's me - but for the life of me I can't seem to get the task done in anything like the required time.

I ask because I sailed through 1-4 and could complete everything Panzer General could throw at me with my eyes shut (I still play it on VPC) but I am not even vaguely close to completing this one. I can send you saves if you like.

Scritty

[gogol]

that's weird dude

maybe you spent the 4 previous scenarios E-replacing all of your troops and never bought any new one.
or maybe you should spend more prestige at the start of this scenario buying some more stuff.
i dunno but i have this feeling that you never bought new units

[krupp_88mm]

the tutorial was great and you have enough core units honestly i had more money than i could ever spend i think i beat all the scenarios in less than 11 turns, i encourage you not to do what is tactically right in the tutorial but experiment as much as possible with different ideas strategies and units

[Moltke71]

It's tough but beatable. I buy many aircraft and deploy my arty forward. I've taken three towns and an airfield while wiping out his air force. He seems to have many tanks but they are Stuka fodder. I still have two units in reserve. If the scenario was easy, we wouldn't learn anything. I think the last three scenarios teach tactics while earlier ones teach mechanics

[Scritty]

Must be me. I only have the three fighters supplied (though they knock out his air power along with a long range 88 behind my artillery pretty quickly) I thought I had plenty of units. Maybe not...
Altogether I have 19 units in all. Average strength is 11 (some at 12 - most at 11)

3 x Fighters BF 109E
3 x Panzer IV D
2 x Panzer III E
3 x 10.5 Arty
1 x 88mm Flak
1 x SDKZ 222
1 X Para
1 x SdKfz 144 mobile AA

I have 500/600 prestige for repairs/reinforcements.

Am I light on prestige? Should I redo the previous missions (I found them extremely easy - so this huge jump in difficulty is baffling me)

Scritty

[Moltke71]

You  nned some infantry, artillery and gebirgesjaeger.  Bite the bullet and start over, building up arty up to 155. Groom grenadiers and buy Stukas. You might not need paras but a bridging unit may help. You also need a recon vehicle.  Best bet is to go through the whole tutorial again.

[gogol]

where s your infantry dude ??? seriously , if you only have 1*para i'm not surprised that you get pwn ;p

[Moltke71]

ORIGINAL: gogol

where s your infantry dude ??? seriously , if you only have 1*para i'm not surprised that you get pwn ;p

Too right. What raises PzC above a mere beer&pretzels game is that it forces players to think about combined arms. Consider this: an enemy arty unit backed up by an AA unit. Forget air. You hit the the AA with your arty, suppress, then hit the AA with armor to lower its strength. Them suck it up and hit the arty with air because the AA isn't so bad, then take the arty out with infantry.

[Duck Doc]

Can't get to much of PzC until this weekend but I have been messing around with the tutorials off & on. I didn't buy as much as I might to see how much I could get away with & how far I could push things & haven't been saving often & on the last tutorial & only feeling the heat a bit on this last one. I agree completely about the combined arms approach. I wasn't paying attention & wound up with 3 stukas (because they sound so cool) & only one BF-109. I will change this. I also have 4 grenadier & 2 arty & 1 para & 1 gebirgs & 4 panzers & 2 recon & 1 37 mm pak & one 88. I will probably go back & spread things more evenly across the board. I didn't realize the tutorials would indeed be a mini-campaign in their own right. The tutorials are for having fun & trying different things out. The stukas aren't my favorite any more. As usual the infantry backed by artillery do the dirty work & the panzers get all the glory.

Great game so far. This is from a naysayer & PG2 diehard! Once again it is the one-more-turn phenomenon & "When are you coming to bed???" Haven't had this happen in a lot of years.

[jjoshua]

You are definitely short on the 'Infantry Dept'.

Since I had never played this game before, I was mezmorized by wanting the Iron Beasties and the Air support first and formost, excluding the need of Infantry and artillary. I paid for my mistake in judgement, and lacked those units in my combined attacks as well. Without them in Tutorial 5, it will become a wasted slug fest on your part, and eventually grinding to a halt, falling short on your objectives.

I replayed the Tutorials through 3 times to really get a feel for how things work...I am a
slow learner, but it sure makes a difference to gaining 'Decisive over Marginal' having practiced so many times with the tutorials, though I have only finished the Poland scenerio on the campaign so far.

I bumped up to Field Marshall for the Campaign, found taking Poland not too bad, gaining a decisive; but felt a little sloppy in my attack on Warsaw in the end. More than likely I will have to bump down to Colonel, until I get a tad better with my coordinated attacks against enemy AA and Artillary, where I am still lacking confindence somewhat.

Like others have said, restart, and rebuild your forces to include Infantry, will save you alot of frustration and heart ache.

: < )

[Adam Parker]

Hey let's not get into calling this game PzC - as that confuses me with HPS's Panzer Campaigns [:'(]

I actually agree with the OP on his thoughts because:

1. The tutorial does not give any clue that the player can and should purchase new units as the lessons progress

and

2. Like I put in the Wish List thread, its really hard right now to see how many slots you have available to fill for a given scenario.

Other than that, yes, if you buy the right units and strengthen some up to 11's and 12's - this scenario can be won first go [:)]

[jjoshua]

I also forgot...recon is a must. Nothing worse than thinking you are well on your way to a percieved opening, thinking the enemy has been neutralized; and being ambushed...a real downer when you are caught totally with your pants down. Spend 'Prestige' on recon....you won't regret the purchase.

: <)

[Scritty]

Gotcha.

I'm hardly getting "owned" though. Not lost a unit and have them all still at full strength when the 24th turn comes with about 50% of the objectives taken. Bridging unit might be an idea as several of the towns are immediately after well guarded river bridges and it would be nice to "sneak around the back". Not really using my G-men at all with my current strategy. Long rane arty with air and AA support, then send the panzers in to mop up. But will now go back and pitch up more infantry units and try a different approach.
Can't believe how inept I am at this one after walking through the first 4 scenarios without giving them a thought and thinking I was doing very well. (most units are 11 - some 12, got some names heroes etc)

Thanks for the advice all.

All in all, this game has entirely lived up to expectations and is probably my best strategy purchase of the year.

[jjoshua]

It not so much as getting owned, as it is the time wasted trying to destroy the enemy units fast enough to keep the march on.

[Duck Doc]

Finished the tutorial the second time through. Should be straight forward for the veteran but I can see why it might give the novice some trouble. It is a very good learning campaign. No complaints unless it is the anti-tank guns on steroids. They must have torn a page in the book from American professional football & baseball.

[Tac2i]

I have no previous history with Panzer General and I got through this scenario with a decisive victory on the first try.

[Razz1]

What do you expect General Webizen?

You have studied R.E. Lee.

[Moltke71]

I wonder if folks having problems with this may be psyched out by the AI's first move, that massive wave of air and armor. The earlier scenarios are passive, That aggressiveness and the distance between viv hexes are daunting.

[jomni]

I got a decisive victory in all of the Tutorial scenarios on the first try.

[Moltke71]

ORIGINAL: jomni

I got a decisive victory in all of the Tutorial scenarios on the first try.

I would have expected nothing less.